Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

some guy limped, I limp with 88, 2 more limpers and the BB makes it 155 to go...he has 1800 I have 1695. I am the lone caller (calling here ok)?

Flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He bets 265 and I just call.

Turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

He checks and I bet 370, the pot is 820 I think. I am trying to look weak and leave enough behind so he thinks he can get tricky. Any good?

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

Flop call is acceptable
I pot turn.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

Why do u like potting the turn better than the bet I chose? remmeber we arent playing too deep

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

If he has nothing(AK)etc. then he isnt calling anything...on the other hand if he does have an overpair, he might well checkraise allin if you pot it. On the other hand with your small bet , i think its more difficult to stack an over pair, he might just call.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

plus what happens when T hits river, or a diamond. card can kill your action or kill your hand.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

There is not enough room to checkraise me all in if I pot it. There is enough room for that with the bet I made though

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

Hiatus,

Pot that turn. You're laying too good a price on too drawy a board. If you think he really loves to pounce on weakness, make it 600 instead of 800. I like potting better, though. Also, calling the flop is fine, but that's a nice board to just raise on right on the flop.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

Pushing the flop might work too. As played, bet at least 600 on turn.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

that preflop call is not a good play... actually, it is pretty bad.

flop, push... at least raise something... draws everywhere.
turn, push. draws everywhere.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
that preflop call is not a good play... actually, it is pretty bad.

flop, push... at least raise something... draws everywhere.
turn, push. draws everywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the 5-10 rule? Isn't he within the "rules" descretion area?

Is this 5-10 NL? Is this really considered a draw heavy flop with a big PF raiser at 5-10, what are you worried about besides two diamonds?

-TripKings

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that preflop call is not a good play... actually, it is pretty bad.

flop, push... at least raise something... draws everywhere.
turn, push. draws everywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the 5-10 rule? Isn't he within the "rules" descretion area?

Is this 5-10 NL? Is this really considered a draw heavy flop with a big PF raiser at 5-10, what are you worried about besides two diamonds?

-TripKings

[/ QUOTE ]
wow. im not scared of being outdrawn... how incredibly weak would that be?
i dont want a bad card to come that will prevent KK from giving me all his chips.

also, the 5-10 rule only applies for situations w/ 2 very novice players.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

FV,

I now understand what you meant. I have a lot to learn. Thank you.

-TripKings

.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

This hand and your fullhouse hand. RAISE THE FLOP.
Preflop, if you are going to play 88 only for set value (and you should against solid Villains) its a fold with that stack. Small pair need about 1-10 / 1-11 (anybody know exactly ?) Implied odds assuming that Villain is paying you off with overpair every time which is not the case. Fold and move on.
(That being said I recently called in very similair situation vs ZeeBo and paid dearly [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

Best wishes

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

Underbetting as a show of "weakness" works better OOP. Here, Villain is going to be too often worried that you are milking him with a monster to CR with an overpair.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

You have to make the pot bigger on the flop because of his likely holdings he is folding few if any of them to a flop raise.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

I'm surprised you called the raise preflop. What was your postflop plan when you didn't flop a set?

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

The pre-flop call could be pretty bad, I was calling 135 to go after about 2000 if I could stack him. I thought this was fine and have started playing more pocket pairs in general because of what people have said on ths board, but now very good posters like flawless victory are telling me this is wrong so I dont know.

My other thought pre-flop was that this guy could just be making a move at all this dead money so if I called him Heads Up in position I might be able to take the pot one way or another by the turn. Are really good players mucking 88 here all the time? I would think guys like Spirit Rock, KKF, Antonius etc wouldnt let 88 go here at gun point

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

2000 is different than 16 and change.

Results
 

Opponent had TT and checkraised em all in, I called and won

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

So you fold pf?

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

how much better is raising the flop then just calling? i mean i think its fairly obvious that due to the flush draw its superior to raise for deception and to protect, and calling should be a shania play, however:

i mean specifically, like has anyone done the math with a likely hand range and decision tree

i suck at this stuff btw sorry im not doing it myself and posting

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]


What about the 5-10 rule? Isn't he within the "rules" descretion area?



[/ QUOTE ]

What is the 5 - 10 rule?

Thanks,
Jonathan

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the 5 - 10 rule?


[/ QUOTE ]

Calling a reraise preflop only If the amount to call falls within 5%-10% of your entire stack. Ofcourse, you use your discretion.

Re: Top Set, can calling the flop look weak?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the 5 - 10 rule?


[/ QUOTE ]

Calling a reraise preflop only If the amount to call falls within 5%-10% of your entire stack. Ofcourse, you use your discretion.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the preflop call is questionable, but you have a good hand that can hit a nut hand (pockets, suited connectors, possibly suited ace), if the raise is less than 5% of the money you could possibly win (whoever's stack is smaller) then it's a definite call. If the raise is more than 10% of the most you could win it's a definite fold. In between it's discretion time, for me it's folding to very good players (who would tend not to get stacked w/ overpairs) and calling bad players who would easily get stacked w/ overpairs.