Chased, caught, cool?
 

Relatively new to Stud. I enjoy the game and I find the edges more pronounced than in Hold 'Em. Found myself at a higher limit than I usually played but wanted the challenge and the tables I wanted to play were empty.

This is a hand that I chased. I did catch, but I still don't know if it was the right thing to do and I want to not get into bad habits.

PokerStars Game #3340327234: 7 Card Stud Limit $3/$6 - 2005/12/15 - 12:33:42 ET

Seat 1: $93.75 in chips
Seat 2: $56.25 in chips
Seat 3: $27 in chips
Seat 4: Hero $65.25 in chips
Seat 5: $122.50 in chips
Seat 6: $78 in chips
Seat 7: $93.75 in chips

All seats post $0.25 ante

*** 3rd STREET *** (Pot = $1.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 2 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 3 Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 5 A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 7 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

<font color="red">Seat 7 brings-in low $1</font>, <font color="red">Seat 1 raises to $3</font>, two folds, Hero calls $3, Seat 5 folds, Seat 6 calls $3, Seat 7 folds

*** 4th STREET *** (Pot = $11.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3, Seat 6 calls $3

*** 5th STREET *** (Pot = $20.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks. Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6, Seat 6 calls $6

*** 6th STREET *** (Pot = $38.75)

Dealt to Seat 1 K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6c J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Dealt to Seat 6 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $6</font>, Hero calls $6, Seat 6 calls $6

*** RIVER *** (Pot = $56.75)

Dealt to Hero 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6h

Hero checks, Seat 6 checks, <font color="red">Seat 1 bets $6</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises $6 to $12</font>, Seat 6 folds, Seat 1 calls $6

*** SHOW DOWN *** (Pot = $80.75)

Hero shows 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] a flush, Ace high
Seat 1 shows Qd Kc K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] a straight, Nine to King

Hero collected $77.75 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $80.75 | Rake $3

The reasons that I chased:

1) Only one heart came out aside from mine.
2) With another player calling to the river, I was only putting in 1/3 of the pot.
3) The exposed cards of the two villains made full houses or two pair drawing to a boat unlikely.

The reason that I shouldn't have chased:

1) Didn't have any out other than the flush draw.
2) (Insert your response here)

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

So you don’t “chase” flush draws in hold’em? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You played it just fine. Folding this at any point would be a crime.

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

looks good. you have to have a very strong reason not to go to the river when you have an A high 4flush in that spot.

edit: i would consider betting out 4th to 1) give the illusion to the guy with the K that you caught Aces 2) to hope the guy in the middle calls and the initial raiser raises to get more money in the pot with you hand that has good equity.

with regard to your initial comment, I think the general school of thought is that you have a larger edge in hold em. Because of the shared cards, there are only a certain number of possible hands an opponent can make after the flop. On third or fourth in stud, you can still back into a lot of crazy stuff to outdraw your opponent.

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

You must lead 4th street...in stud, the commanding board should lead...it may allow you to take the pot down later (if you pair your board for example) and gets money in the pot. I wouldn't check call here since the ace is also a scare card. Other than that, there isn't much to discuss.

Jeff

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

I'm new to this game, too. Question about this hand - is it correct to call a raise on 3rd with a baby flush and no straightening possibilities? Seems -EV to me unless you are sure somebody will come along, or you are counting implied odds. How do you estimate implied odds in this situation?

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 5h 9h 4h - qd kc ks / 3h
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
9h 5h 4h 161433 32.29 338564 67.71 3 0.00 0.323
Ks Kc Qd 338564 67.71 161433 32.29 3 0.00 0.677

Great card on 4th:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1406085
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 5h 9h 4h ah - qd kc ks 6c / 3h
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah 9h 5h 4h 292520 58.50 207480 41.50 0 0.00 0.585
Ks Kc 6c Qd 207480 41.50 292520 58.50 0 0.00 0.415

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great card on 4th:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1406085
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s 5h 9h 4h ah - qd kc ks 6c / 3h
7-card Stud Hi: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ah 9h 5h 4h 292520 58.50 207480 41.50 0 0.00 0.585
Ks Kc 6c Qd 207480 41.50 292520 58.50 0 0.00 0.415

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, you call to put yourself in this situation.

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

Just out of curiosity, what would have been the correct play by villain? Check behind, or bet w/ fold to a raise? Or did he play it right?

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, what would have been the correct play by villain? Check behind, or bet w/ fold to a raise? Or did he play it right?

[/ QUOTE ]


On the river? He absolutely has to bet his straight there.

Actually, I think hero should bet right out on the river though. (And I agree with the others he should bet right out on 4th, too).

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, what would have been the correct play by villain? Check behind, or bet w/ fold to a raise? Or did he play it right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If Hero had bet, should villain have called?
And should villain have paid off the check-raise?


On the river? He absolutely has to bet his straight there.

Actually, I think hero should bet right out on the river though. (And I agree with the others he should bet right out on 4th, too).

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Chased, caught, cool?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity, what would have been the correct play by villain? Check behind, or bet w/ fold to a raise? Or did he play it right?

[/ QUOTE ]


On the river? He absolutely has to bet his straight there.

Actually, I think hero should bet right out on the river though. (And I agree with the others he should bet right out on 4th, too).

[/ QUOTE ]
If Hero had bet, should villain have called?
And should villain have paid off the check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]


Villain has to pay off the chck-raise, yeah. Hero could be doing this with aces up or trips.

Whether or not he should have raised if hero had bet out is harder to decide… I probably would have, but I have a feeling that’s bad.
There are not many hands other than a 4-flush hero can have given the way the hands played out. He can’t have 4A4, since he would have raised on 4th or 5th. And it’s almost impossible for him to have a straight. So the only other hand he might play this way is QQ, basically. And villain knows trip queens are impossible (one dead and one in his hand).
Of course hero could have backed into other trips or aces up. Or maybe he would bet out with jacks up or something. Nevertheless, a flush is his most likely hand when he bets out on the river and villain is risking a 3-bet.
So, having typed all this up, I vote call.