A tough game collision
 

I observed the following hand Friday night at Commerce. It took place in a 40/80 game that was unusually tough by SoCal standards. How well/poorly did each player play their hand? I'd be interested to hear how folks would have played differently in the respective situations.

UTG, an extremely solid regular, raises with QQ. Folded around to button, who doesn't play many hands and apparently doesn't recognize UTG as extremely solid, who flat calls with AdQh. SB calls, BB calls with KTo. BB is a young pro who is exceptional at hand-reading.

Flop: QdTdTh

SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, button calls, SB folds.

Turn: 6h

BB bets, UTG calls, button raises, BB shows his hand to the SB and folds, UTG 3-bets, button calls.

River: blank

UTG bets and is called.

Re: A tough game collision
 

BB's turn fold is extremely bad. His preflop call is pretty questionable too.
UTG played perfectly.
Button should probably have folded preflop but otherwise played fine.

Re: A tough game collision
 

BB should have lost at least one more BB. If he calls the turn and UTG 3-bets, now I can imagine a good hand reader finding a fold. On the other hand, UTG could have AK, so a 3-bet from the BB would be totally reasonable.

Button played it reasonably, I'd say. 3-betting and folding preflop are all reasonable. Waiting for the turn to raise his TPTK let him see how UTG reacted to a turn bet, and also see whether an ugly K or J hit the turn.

All told, I'd say that the guy seems to have played the best, the BB, actually played the worst and made a mistake on the turn. UTG played perfectly, with the button coming in 2nd having played his hand reasonably but missing chances to get away preflop and when UTG made the power limp-reraise on the turn.

my 2 cents.
Eric

Re: A tough game collision
 

I have a rather random pat for you Shawn. I just wanted to say that I thought this was an interesting post. Don't be discouraged by the lack of replies.

Thanks,
Eric

Re: A tough game collision
 

[ QUOTE ]
I observed the following hand Friday night at Commerce. It took place in a 40/80 game that was unusually tough by SoCal standards. How well/poorly did each player play their hand? I'd be interested to hear how folks would have played differently in the respective situations.

UTG, an extremely solid regular, raises with QQ. Folded around to button, who doesn't play many hands and apparently doesn't recognize UTG as extremely solid, who flat calls with AdQh. SB calls, BB calls with KTo. BB is a young pro who is exceptional at hand-reading.

Flop: QdTdTh

SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, button calls, SB folds.

Turn: 6h

BB bets, UTG calls, button raises, BB shows his hand to the SB and folds, UTG 3-bets, button calls.

River: blank

UTG bets and is called.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting post...

I think the BB played the hand poorly from a purely statistical matter, but layed his 2nd best hand down at the appropriate time. It is hard for me to say he played the hand poorly... but yet he seems to have layed down a little too soon.

However, I think you described the game correctly in that the game was playing very tough and straight-forward. The turn is a complete brick but the button has a big enough hand that he can raise an initial raiser and another player (the BB) on the turn when an innocuous card comes on the turn... and especially when the player plays few hands...

I can see how the BB found a laydown... especially if he is as strong at hand reading as you say... I really think this kid probably made a fortune in this game. Personally I find that tough and TAG games are great games b/c if you can read hands you can make some great plays that really can net you a lot more profit with less variability b/c you always know where you are at in a hand. In a loose wild game like a typical SoCal game... you often have to make the best hand and that can increase your volatility.

Personally, it sounds like a great game to play IMHO!

Re: A tough game collision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I find that tough and TAG games are great games b/c if you can read hands you can make some great plays that really can net you a lot more profit with less variability b/c you always know where you are at in a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I find that games in which my opponents play poorly are much easier.

Re: A tough game collision
 

both button and utg appear to play pretty poorly, particularly the button. ill have to give it some more thought.

more thoughts
 

"I can see how the BB found a laydown..."

i cant and the more i think about it im suspicious that our poster mis-posted and bb actually got away on the turn after utg call-3 bet. that would make a lot more sense.

the button really stunk it up on this hand. AQo is a 3 bet or fold hand. period. clearly given poster's description it's a fold here against an utg raiser. one of the most common things you see from mediocre mid limit players is they cold call all the time with trouble hands like AQ, AJ, KQ, etc. a little too loose, a little too passive.

waiting for the turn is fine with the AQ when it comes QTT w/ a flush draw and bb is betting. the flop is good.

the turn and river payoff though are tremendously bad. call-3 bet means the nuts and nothing but, even at 40-80. terrible to not find the fold there. button plays bad.

tough games/easy games
 

"Personally I find that tough and TAG games are great games b/c if you can read hands you can make some great plays"

the toughest and easiest games i have played in share one trait: players who think their hand has any remote chance of being best never lay there hand down against any sort of "play". in the easier games the worst players just call and call and call. in the tougher games the players push back and then only when you keep raising do they finally just call down. they never fold when you want them to.

Re: A tough game collision
 

If BB is really that good a hand reader, he must make about $300/hr in that game.