KK pre-flop laydown
 

Live foxwoods game, 1/2 NL. Both Villian and myself have about $500 in front of us. Villan is new to the table, moved from another broken game. No reads.

2 or 3 players limp to Villian who raises to $5 in MP.

I'm right behind him and pickup KK. I re-raise to $20.

Folds to Villian who makes it $120 to go.

Without any reads, and considering I only have $20 in the pot, I lay this down without even thinking too long.

Villian flips over 24o. Over the next few hours I see him make several huge bluffs like this, and I wish I had this information earlier.

My friend berated me for not calling with the Kings.

Anyone else call here? If so, what would you plan on doing on the flop? Bet any flop if checked to? Call any bet?

I really put the guy on Aces.

iash

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

this has been debated ad nauseum, never fold kings preflop. ever.

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

Too many people play too bad at 1/2 live to think about laying this down.

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

Without reads I do not fold in this situation. Folding here really tells me that you are playing a game to is too big for your bankroll.

Regarding the "never fold Kings preflop" statement. I don't buy it at all. My regular ring game right now is the Stars NL200 game. There are certain players there against whom I would lay down KK preflop under specific circumstances. For example, there are at least 3 players such that if there were a raise in front of me, which I reraised by 3x or greater, and one of these 3 followed with a huge reraise, I would fold and feel 99% confident I'd see them turn over AA.

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
this has been debated ad nauseum, never fold kings preflop. ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad advice.

SpaceAce

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
this has been debated ad nauseum, never fold kings preflop. ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the situation in the OP is a fold (though it's debatable), but I strongly disagree with this statement. In the Party $200NL games, I've had several such situations. For example: I raise to $7 in EP, folds to LP or the blinds, and someone reraises huge (to $80+, or all-in). I'm confident that this is AA a solid majority of the time.

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

He just sat at the table - If he raised my re-raise to 120 on his first hand, I'm going over the top all-in w/ my kings... In this case, I do it to set the tone "you can't push me off a hand, so don't try"... you most likely gain the upper hand for the entire session. if i happen to be unlucky enough to run into aces, so be it.

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this has been debated ad nauseum, never fold kings preflop. ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the situation in the OP is a fold (though it's debatable), but I strongly disagree with this statement. In the Party $200NL games, I've had several such situations. For example: I raise to $7 in EP, folds to LP or the blinds, and someone reraises huge (to $80+, or all-in). I'm confident that this is AA a solid majority of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this nearly the exact situation in my post? Villian puts in a huge re-raise after I make a standard raise. What range of hands does everyone put him on? AA is the most probable in my mind, With AK, QQ-TT being less likely alternatives.

With zero reads, why unnecessarily put a large chunk of my stack at risk when I can just wait for a better spot?

As far as bankroll goes, it's not an issue. If anything it's just a matter of perhaps playing too tight.

Thanks for the comments

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

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Isn't this nearly the exact situation in my post?

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Absolutely not. He said "Party 200NL", you said "Foxwoods 1/2". Those are completely different games. Correctly folding KK preflop in the former is a rarity; in the latter, its almost impossible.

Re: KK pre-flop laydown
 

I have only folded KK preflop once, so I don't like it. As for your particular hand, with position I call the $120 and raise/bet almost any flop. I was in an almost identical situation the other day and stacked a guy who had QQ when the flop came up three rags.