bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

I think after my flop bet I'm committed, no?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $25 BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">UTG ($2137)</font>
UTG+1 ($4601)
UTG+2 ($5040.50)
MP1 ($1000)
MP2 ($2270)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($2677.50)</font>
CO ($6001.50)
Button ($3608.50)
SB ($1559)
BB ($1479.50)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls $25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $25, Hero calls $25, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($110) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets $110</font>, MP2 calls $110, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $550</font>, BB folds, UTG+2 calls $440, MP2 calls $440.

Turn: ($1760) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2102.5 (All-In)</font>

FWIW, UTG was snake84 (from stars right?), and MP2 was EddieP

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

I don't play this high, but I think it is quite possible for one of those two to have a flush, isn't it? Unless you are pushing as a bluff. Maybe take the free card and try to fill up. Will both players call another 440 on that flop with anything that your 22 beat, especially the overcaller. There is only one As in the deck and it is a pretty marginal call with that.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't play this high, but I think it is quite possible for one of those two to have a flush, isn't it? Unless you are pushing as a bluff. Maybe take the free card and try to fill up. Will both players call another 440 on that flop with anything that your 22 beat, especially the overcaller. There is only one As in the deck and it is a pretty marginal call with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Taking a free card gives others a chance to hit their flush and outdraw his bottom set. This is certainly not what we want.

The flop raise looks really good, enough so you are able to push a pot-sized bet in on a non [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] turn.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

looks standard to me

-but im a limit player

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

I like waiting for a non-spade turn to get a raise in. If someone comes over the top on the turn, you can also put them on a flush more easily.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

Only thing I am worried about is being way behind already. I don't know the players, but when both call your raise here, I get scared. I mean, there is only 1 A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the deck, and if they're solid players, they shouldn't be calling here with a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], right? Only MP2 is getting odds on a flush, and assuming UTG+2 is a decent player, he surely wouldn't be calling with a lone spade.

I'd be very worried that you're either up against a higher set or a the flush already. The turn push I don't like due to the ol' "what worse hand calls?" concept. If someone has the spade draw, surely they aren't calling unless they are huge fish, which is doubtful.

Why not bet a bit less?

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

Yeah, bobbo brought this up, I should have bet less on the turn, like 1/2 pot.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

Sorry I don't get it.
This is an unraised pot. This is full ring.
I'm not playing this high, but at the levels that I have played, this hand almost always qualifies for 2nd best hand if the pot gets big and you are the aggressor, unless opposition is retarded or tilt, but you didn't mention a read like that.

I'd try to keep this pot small and wouldn't be too worried about getting outdrawn.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, bobbo brought this up, I should have bet less on the turn, like 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeah, I was going to suggest 1/2 pot.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, bobbo brought this up, I should have bet less on the turn, like 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeah, I was going to suggest 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
1/2 pot seems really ugly, since you'll give odds for loan A to draw, and have to call any allins anyways, and I doubt you'll induce bluffs.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

I don't raise the flop often here. Bottom set does not look too hot if this pot gets big.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 pot seems really ugly, since you'll give odds for loan A to draw,

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure? A loan spade is nearly a 4.5:1 dog. I don't mind if A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls me getting 3:1 there.. I wouldn't want to jam and fold out the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], though. :-/

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

This whole hand is weird b/c you're representing a made small flush. Is that what you intended? If these giys are not morons, then one of them has to have 66 or 77, or they both have sets.

I'm with TWP, I'm not raising the flop, nor am I looking to play a huge pot here.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1/2 pot seems really ugly, since you'll give odds for loan A to draw,

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you figure? A loan spade is nearly a 4.5:1 dog. I don't mind if A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls me getting 3:1 there.. I wouldn't want to jam and fold out the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], though. :-/

[/ QUOTE ]well point is, he's not a huge dog, but there's a good shot you're getting c/r allin by a better hand which you'll have to call

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, bobbo brought this up, I should have bet less on the turn, like 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeah, I was going to suggest 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
1/2 pot seems really ugly, since you'll give odds for loan A to draw, and have to call any allins anyways, and I doubt you'll induce bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didnt suggest 1/2 pot, but even a half pot does not allow them to draw well. It's not about inducing bluffs, although thats great, it's about inducing bad calls.

And obviously I'm never folding this.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, bobbo brought this up, I should have bet less on the turn, like 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeah, I was going to suggest 1/2 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
1/2 pot seems really ugly, since you'll give odds for loan A to draw, and have to call any allins anyways, and I doubt you'll induce bluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didnt suggest 1/2 pot, but even a half pot does not allow them to draw well. It's not about inducing bluffs, although thats great, it's about inducing bad calls.

And obviously I'm never folding this.

[/ QUOTE ]


steve...if he does have the flush,with your luck, you can just fill up [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
well point is, he's not a huge dog, but there's a good shot you're getting c/r allin by a better hand which you'll have to call

[/ QUOTE ]

4.5:1 isn't being a huge dog? It's irrelevant anyway, shouldn't you be happy if you bet half pot and get a call from a lone spade?

So your argument is that half pot sucks cause you'll most likely get CRAI by a better hand? Uh, alright, so obviously we aren't folding, right? So either jam all in, fold out drawing hand we WANT in, and get called by better hands.. or bet half pot, keep in A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which is drawing incorrectly, and still lose to big hands?

I don't know, one of those seems slightly better, but then again you are a much better player than I.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

Since you mentioned the two players by name, I assume they are thinking, strong players.


With that said, I would make every attempt to keep the pot small here and try to show down this hand for as cheaply as possible.

It look like you have represented a made flush. I would guess that one of your opponents has a larger set.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Since you mentioned the two players by name, I assume they are thinking, strong players.


With that said, I would make every attempt to keep the pot small here and try to show down this hand for as cheaply as possible.

It look like you have represented a made flush. I would guess that one of your opponents has a larger set.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY? he has a SET?

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well point is, he's not a huge dog, but there's a good shot you're getting c/r allin by a better hand which you'll have to call

[/ QUOTE ]

4.5:1 isn't being a huge dog? It's irrelevant anyway, shouldn't you be happy if you bet half pot and get a call from a lone spade?

So your argument is that half pot sucks cause you'll most likely get CRAI by a better hand? Uh, alright, so obviously we aren't folding, right? So either jam all in, fold out drawing hand we WANT in, and get called by better hands.. or bet half pot, keep in A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which is drawing incorrectly, and still lose to big hands?

I don't know, one of those seems slightly better, but then again you are a much better player than I.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said skeme

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you mentioned the two players by name, I assume they are thinking, strong players.


With that said, I would make every attempt to keep the pot small here and try to show down this hand for as cheaply as possible.

It look like you have represented a made flush. I would guess that one of your opponents has a larger set.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY? he has a SET?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Did you read the thread or are you fixated on the fact that he has a set? (Sorry if my sarcasm detector is broken.)

Given the action, I think it is very likely at least one of the two villains also has a set. In addition a made flush also seems a likely holding.

What range of hands do you think the two villains put him on? Once we can determine what our opponents think we have, then we can further narrow down their likely holding given the action.

I am almost certain hero is beat here (bold statement from a Small Stakes guy I know, lets see some results.)

Could you discuss how you would play the hand and why please?


Thanks,

Ness

edit: I guess I should give my two cents, as to how I would play the hand.

I think a call of the flop and a raise on the turn is best. Yes, I would fold to a reraise, I suck.

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

I think I take/has taken heros like here almost every time. But after reading all the replies I guess checking behind on the turn and praying for the case deuce is the best way to play this actually...

Re: bottom set monotone board, alternative lines welcome (boring)
 

[ QUOTE ]
well said skeme

[/ QUOTE ]

yesssssss i knew this day would come!