Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I'm considering moving out of the country sometime next year or the year after and I think the 2 most desireable places are Aruba, Cancun Mexico and perhaps Australia.

How can I get granted permanent residence in Aruba, Mexico or Australia? From my understanding you can only live in these countries for a temporary period unless you become a citizen or somehow become approved for permanent residence. How do I go through this process for each country and how hard is it to get in for a professional internet gambler?

Secondly, from my understanding Aruba and Australia does not tax gambling winnings. Is this true? Does Mexico tax online gambling winnings (is online gambling even legal?) and if either countries tax you what is their going percentage? I'm going to have to pay taxes on my winnings either way to the US but I'd like to get the 80k credit of course. If Mexico's/Australia's tax rate is as high as ours then I wouldn't be able to save anything on taxes.

I've tried to do alot of google research on the following questions but I just can't come up with anything. Please help me out with this or point me to a webpage/person that I could get some answers out of.

Thanks a bundles

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

For Aruba, you will be applying for Dutch Citizenship. You have to be a resident for 5 years before you can apply.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm considering moving out of the country sometime next year or the year after and I think the 2 most desireable places are Aruba, Cancun Mexico and perhaps Australia.

How can I get granted permanent residence in Aruba, Mexico or Australia? From my understanding you can only live in these countries for a temporary period unless you become a citizen or somehow become approved for permanent residence. How do I go through this process for each country and how hard is it to get in for a professional internet gambler?

Secondly, from my understanding Aruba and Australia does not tax gambling winnings. Is this true? Does Mexico tax online gambling winnings (is online gambling even legal?) and if either countries tax you what is their going percentage? I'm going to have to pay taxes on my winnings either way to the US but I'd like to get the 80k credit of course. If Mexico's/Australia's tax rate is as high as ours then I wouldn't be able to save anything on taxes.

I've tried to do alot of google research on the following questions but I just can't come up with anything. Please help me out with this or point me to a webpage/person that I could get some answers out of.

Thanks a bundles

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you are U.S. citizen. You have to pay taxes on your winnings no matter where you live.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Australia.

[/ QUOTE ] sounds good how about Costa Rica, Brazil, Italy, Spain or the south of France, Japan may be fun too. How about Puerta Vallarta for Mexico.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

As TStone referenced in his original post...your first $80k of income that you make abroad are non-taxable in the U.S.
Income you make after your first $80k is still taxed.


You have to have lived a certain percentage of the year outside the U.S. to be eligible for this exception. Something like 180 or 210 days or something outside the U.S.
but saving on the first $80k isn't exactly small-potatoes.


Matthew Hilger also makes mention of having done this in his book Internet Texas Holdem.

LIGHTBULB: speaking of Hilger.....
TStone - Hilger lived in Australia for awhile and I believe in his book he mentions that he has lived in 16 or 20 countries or something.
You might want to swing by his forums (he has his own forum but I don't know the address) and ask him about it.
He's as likely to have knowledge about this stuff as anybody here will.


Let me know what you find out as this is a topic that interests me as well.
Cancun or South America or Europe could be possible for me in a couple years. Not terribly likely...but i'd still like to know.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

My understanding is that you won't be able to legally obtain any tax savings. The problem is that the $80K exclusion applies only to earned income, and the US government specifically excludes gambling winnings from the definition of earned income.

Perhaps someone else knows something different.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

If I'm filing a Schedule C as a self-employed, is my income not earned income regardless?

I thought about moving to Aruba, Mexico, Costa Rica, or Europe in a year or two to experience life in another country and get an awesome $80k tax-free bonus.

Sure, you still owe taxes after the $80k, but if you move to a country where internet gambling isn't taxed, you aren't paying them any taxes either. The savings plus decreased cost of living is huge.

Let me know what you find out as I'm seriously considering doing this after I spend some time living in Vegas.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Yes...I have also been hearing this.

I hadn't seen anyone post on that specific idea until just a few months ago...after there had been about 9-zillion posts about the $80k-exception.


It's possible that there's some difference in there for schedule-C professional gamblers and recreational gamblers.

I honestly have no freaking clue on that whole bit about gambling-income being outside the exception.

I do know that Hilger mentioned that you get the $80k exception in his book...and I think he did this for himself as well.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Here's the info straight from the IRS.

Whether you call it gambling winnings or business profits, it's still not earned income.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I'm not an authority on gambling taxes, so it's very possible that I'm misinterpreting the tax code. However, I also would not use a poker book as my source for tax information (no offense to Hilger).

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Interesting.

Although 'business profits' falls under the category of 'variable income' and I couldn't quite figure out what that means.

but it does appear clear that gambling winnings shouldn't count fo rthe $80k exemption.

Even if this is the case you can still obviously save a bundle on cost of living in certain places.
but having to pay full-taxes back to the U.S. kind of sucks imo.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

If your making enough money playing poker to consider moving out of the country to avoid paying taxes on your 1st 80K of income heres a tip... hire an ACCOUNTANT or a LAWYER or whoever to get the answer. You obviously have the money to do so.

Your going to do this anyway right? I mean your not going to just get your info from an internet message board and say that "Joe Schmoe" said this and this so it must be true.

And I really hope your not just going to "google" the info to save a few bucks on what could be a life altering decision.

I've never understood why people ask comlicated legal questions in regards to taxes, citizenship etc on an internet poker forum A) You are goiing to get 16 different answers B) 16 out of the 16 answers will be wrong because everyone is an expert on the subject c) If you make possible life altering decisons such as not paying taxes or moving to a different country etc based on what you read here well you are an idiot. ( Not calling you an idiot, just making a point)

The "Do I have to pay taxes in Canada" thread is a perfect example of this.

If your not completely nuts and are going to hire a proffesional whatever to answer your questions correctly then why bother posting here in the 1st place? You are going to get so much incorrect information that any correct answers you recieve will be mixed in with all the junk.

Also heres another thought to ponder: Is it worth it to save 25K a year in taxes or whatever your tax rate is (I don't know your tax rates cause I live in Canada) to move to a different country, leave your friends and family behind and have a different quality of life?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I agree with much of what you say.

A couple of nit-picks though:


1. Many professional accountants don't even know what they're talking about when it comes to online-gambling. Some will say that it's not even possible to file a schedule-C as a professional (simply because they aren't familiar with it).
I have recommended to those who go to a professional to take with them a copy of Walter Lewis's Gambling Guide to Taxes so that they can show the accountant the specific part they are referring to.

Also - there are actually some on here who do know what they're talking about. There was a tax-thread on here from last Feb or so and a guy with the handle CPA (who actually is one) had some terrific input and answered a lot of questions.


Overall though you are correct of course. Obviously you are still going to better with a professional than on an internet-forum.



2. I really don't think most people are looking to move as a situation to 'save money'.
Some want to experience different cultures and areas...live in an area they would half-consider to be paradise....try something new. Whatever.

The U.S. is fine (except I'm not thrilled about the taxes) And I have some friends here of course.
But I would really love to see the world and do something like this.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

hi nightwish, ive read that article before saying that gambling winnings are not earned income but i thought twoplustwo has made some progress on the issue within the past few months and i was beginning to think its clear that the 80k tax credit applies for poker players.

i really dont want this to turn into a tax credit question. the purpose of this thread was to ask about how to obtain permanent residence in a foreign country and what the tax rates are in those countries.

hi limitplayer, keep your opinions to yourself tks.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Well jeez I would have but since you came on here asking for opinions, I gave one. Not my fault you didn't like it.

I don't remember seeing anything along the lines of "don't post If you think I won't like the answer"

It's ok, I don't feel like getting into a pissing match with some 22 year old who's main thing in life is poker. Judging from past posts of yours, you are talented in the poker field but are lacking in other areas of life.


It's a shame you can't take criticsism.

[ QUOTE ]
the purpose of this thread was to ask about how to obtain permanent residence in a foreign country and what the tax rates are in those countries

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, don't be so cheap and get the correct answer from a proffesional who knows the answer.

If i had a question about poker I wonder if I would get reliable and correct info If i posted on a porn forum.
And then of course I would act on it without getting proffesional advice because they must be right.

But if I was getting proffesional and correct advice to begin with why would I bother posting on an internet forum?

Microbob made a point that there will be some posters who will know what they are talking about but there is no way for you to know who is correct unless you know what you were taling about, in which case you wouldn't have asked the questions in the 1st place.

edit-actually after reading the tone of my post I guess I don't have anything better to do then get into a pissing match at the moment

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

"proffesional" "criticsism" "your"

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I relly doont care whow I spell. Its nott a contesst

Your good how bout this...
 

[ QUOTE ]
desireable

[/ QUOTE ]


desirable

aw only 1, you win but your punctioation and grammar suck.

And yes mine does as wel or is it weell maybe well?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]

You might want to swing by his forums (he has his own forum but I don't know the address)

[/ QUOTE ]

Matthew's wonderful forum is at http://www.internettexasholdem.com

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

thanks mbob and OD and the others who helped. keep the comments a comin [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well jeez I would have but since you came on here asking for opinions, I gave one. Not my fault you didn't like it.

I don't remember seeing anything along the lines of "don't post If you think I won't like the answer"

It's ok, I don't feel like getting into a pissing match with some 22 year old who's main thing in life is poker. Judging from past posts of yours, you are talented in the poker field but are lacking in other areas of life.


It's a shame you can't take criticsism.

[ QUOTE ]
the purpose of this thread was to ask about how to obtain permanent residence in a foreign country and what the tax rates are in those countries

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, don't be so cheap and get the correct answer from a proffesional who knows the answer.

If i had a question about poker I wonder if I would get reliable and correct info If i posted on a porn forum.
And then of course I would act on it without getting proffesional advice because they must be right.

But if I was getting proffesional and correct advice to begin with why would I bother posting on an internet forum?

Microbob made a point that there will be some posters who will know what they are talking about but there is no way for you to know who is correct unless you know what you were taling about, in which case you wouldn't have asked the questions in the 1st place.

edit-actually after reading the tone of my post I guess I don't have anything better to do then get into a pissing match at the moment

[/ QUOTE ]

You are really rude.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

have you been to Aruba? do you have family there?

I couldn't imagine spending any prolonged amount of time there - it's not very interesting.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
have you been to Aruba? do you have family there?

I couldn't imagine spending any prolonged amount of time there - it's not very interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

the beaches are solid, I had a blast there for wpt

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
have you been to Aruba? do you have family there?

I couldn't imagine spending any prolonged amount of time there - it's not very interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

the beaches are solid, I had a blast there for wpt

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. but I would get real tired of it after a while - like 2 weeks. it's basically like going to Florida, except they have a different currency and some people speak a different language. it's so Americanized and small that it would get claustrophobic.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm filing a Schedule C as a self-employed, is my income not earned income regardless?

I thought about moving to Aruba, Mexico, Costa Rica, or Europe in a year or two to experience life in another country and get an awesome $80k tax-free bonus.

Sure, you still owe taxes after the $80k, but if you move to a country where internet gambling isn't taxed, you aren't paying them any taxes either. The savings plus decreased cost of living is huge.

Let me know what you find out as I'm seriously considering doing this after I spend some time living in Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more money you make, the less big a deal the 80K exemption becomes because you cant deduct half of your SE tax anymore. But its still a break nonetheless.

who cares if mexico taxes gambling earnings, how will they ever find out you are plaiyng poker in your apartment?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

As far as residency goes in Australia, it would be tough to organise, although you should be able to get tourist visa's for 6 months, quick trip to Asia or New Zealand, and then you get another tourist visa.

Great country, plenty to see. Nice people, but then I'm biased [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Not too sure on the tax stuff though but I would say that the situation would be favourable.

Higher cost of living than your other options.

Cheers,
Granite

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well jeez I would have but since you came on here asking for opinions, I gave one. Not my fault you didn't like it.

I don't remember seeing anything along the lines of "don't post If you think I won't like the answer"

It's ok, I don't feel like getting into a pissing match with some 22 year old who's main thing in life is poker. Judging from past posts of yours, you are talented in the poker field but are lacking in other areas of life.


It's a shame you can't take criticsism.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the purpose of this thread was to ask about how to obtain permanent residence in a foreign country and what the tax rates are in those countries


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Again, don't be so cheap and get the correct answer from a proffesional who knows the answer.

If i had a question about poker I wonder if I would get reliable and correct info If i posted on a porn forum.
And then of course I would act on it without getting proffesional advice because they must be right.

But if I was getting proffesional and correct advice to begin with why would I bother posting on an internet forum?

Microbob made a point that there will be some posters who will know what they are talking about but there is no way for you to know who is correct unless you know what you were taling about, in which case you wouldn't have asked the questions in the 1st place.

edit-actually after reading the tone of my post I guess I don't have anything better to do then get into a pissing match at the moment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are really rude.



[/ QUOTE ]

Rude, perhaps. I can't help it, it happens when I'm right.

He asked a question, got an answer he didn't like and told me to keep my opinions to myself. That's when I got rude.

It reminds me of when my 3 year old daughter asks a question or asks for a cookie, doesn't like the answer she is given and then goes and asks someone else the same question. The answer doesn't change.

Maybe I was a bit overboard in 1 of my comments after I was told to keep my opinions to myself, so for that I apoligize, but then again I am dealing with an "adult" who should be able to take criticism.


The point is, he's asking a question where he's not going to get a correct answer. One or more of the posters may be correct, but how is he going to determine who gives the correct answer and who gives the wrong one?

He can't and won't be able to unless he picks up a phone and calls a goverment agency or lawyer or whatever professional he needs to to get the corect answer. (did I spell that right? Don't wanna get corrected again)

Is he going to base a life altering decison on the information he recieves on a poker forum? (No, he's not)
So since he is going to end up talking to someone who will have the correct answers for him, why bother posting this question to begin with?

He'll save time and headaches by simply picking up the phone.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I'm curious about why you picked those three countries. Was the tax treatment of poker by those governments the primary motivator?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well jeez I would have but since you came on here asking for opinions, I gave one. Not my fault you didn't like it.

I don't remember seeing anything along the lines of "don't post If you think I won't like the answer"

It's ok, I don't feel like getting into a pissing match with some 22 year old who's main thing in life is poker. Judging from past posts of yours, you are talented in the poker field but are lacking in other areas of life.


It's a shame you can't take criticsism.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the purpose of this thread was to ask about how to obtain permanent residence in a foreign country and what the tax rates are in those countries


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Again, don't be so cheap and get the correct answer from a proffesional who knows the answer.

If i had a question about poker I wonder if I would get reliable and correct info If i posted on a porn forum.
And then of course I would act on it without getting proffesional advice because they must be right.

But if I was getting proffesional and correct advice to begin with why would I bother posting on an internet forum?

Microbob made a point that there will be some posters who will know what they are talking about but there is no way for you to know who is correct unless you know what you were taling about, in which case you wouldn't have asked the questions in the 1st place.

edit-actually after reading the tone of my post I guess I don't have anything better to do then get into a pissing match at the moment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You are really rude.



[/ QUOTE ]

Rude, perhaps. I can't help it, it happens when I'm right.

He asked a question, got an answer he didn't like and told me to keep my opinions to myself. That's when I got rude.

It reminds me of when my 3 year old daughter asks a question or asks for a cookie, doesn't like the answer she is given and then goes and asks someone else the same question. The answer doesn't change.

Maybe I was a bit overboard in 1 of my comments after I was told to keep my opinions to myself, so for that I apoligize, but then again I am dealing with an "adult" who should be able to take criticism.


The point is, he's asking a question where he's not going to get a correct answer. One or more of the posters may be correct, but how is he going to determine who gives the correct answer and who gives the wrong one?

He can't and won't be able to unless he picks up a phone and calls a goverment agency or lawyer or whatever professional he needs to to get the corect answer. (did I spell that right? Don't wanna get corrected again)

Is he going to base a life altering decison on the information he recieves on a poker forum? (No, he's not)
So since he is going to end up talking to someone who will have the correct answers for him, why bother posting this question to begin with?

He'll save time and headaches by simply picking up the phone.

[/ QUOTE ]

shut up no one likes you

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

nightwish...

didn't you scam inthacup once?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
shut up no one likes you

[/ QUOTE ]

Aw, I'm hurt I really am. After all, my main concern these days is to be "liked" by a bunch of faceless strangers on an internet poker forum.

I really don't care if you like me or not, all I want from this site is poker knowledge.

But please can we be friends?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I know this isn't what you wanted, but if you go a little farther down:

[ QUOTE ]
Earned and Unearned Income

Earned income was defined earlier as pay for personal services performed. Some types of income are not easily identified as earned or unearned income. These types of income -specifically, income from sole proprietorships, partnerships, and corporations, stock options, pensions and annuities, royalties, rents, and fringe benefits - are further explained in Chapter 4 of Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad .

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, if I'm filing schedule C for being a professional gambler, is that not a personal service performed? What about if I make over the $80k a year threshold just from propping for certain sites.... certainly that is a service performed and earned income, no?

Sole proprietorships are also a gray-area which is another classification I could fall under since I'm filing schedule C.

It seems to me like they are excluding gambling winnings for non-professionals, but if they want to say there is no such thing as a professional gambler, I'm all for that since I can just not pay SE tax... those savings are even bigger.

Checking out that page is says to go to:

[ QUOTE ]
If you are a sole proprietor or partner and your personal services are also an important part of producing the income, the part of the income that represents the value of your personal services will be treated as earned income.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want to tell me that my personal services are not a 100% necessary part of the sole proprietorship making it's money?

I don't see how the 80k cannot apply.


Sorry for the hijack, TStone.

Of some importance is that you don't need to be a permanent resident of another country, you simple need it be in a foreign country/countries 330 days out of the year.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Also, don't forget about the foreign housing deduction you can take as well.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

i dont mind the hijack at all because you had things to say i hadnt heard yet. what is this foreign housing deduction you speak of?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Foreign Housing Deduction

It's a deduction on your foreign housing / utilities for self-employed individuals working overseas. You have to be making over $80k for it to kick in (because you can't deduct parts of the 80k twice). You also can't deduct more than you make (obviously).

There are some calculations on that page, but I believe they only apply to your foreign housing exclusion (provided by your employer) which you don't have, since you are self-employed.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

my lease expires next june at which point i think im going to put my stuff in storage and visit a country or two to see if i like the idea of living there. i have an idea of which countries i would like to live in most but one of the purposes of this thread was to narrow my decision.

i really want to live someplace warm and i want to make scuba diving with tropical fish my hobby. i want green beaches where you can see the ocean floor. ive been interested in aruba for quite some time now because from my understanding they dont tax gambling winnings. everyone also tells me that aruba is great and that i would love it there. the person who said aruba is boring in this thread is the first person to tell me i wouldnt like to live there. i could certainly understand why. small country not much to do. another nice incentive however is that they have the party cruise come down to aruba every year so there will be some poker action.

i just recently came up with cancun mexico because it has alot of great features of awesome beaches, tourist location and 1 month a year its spring break.[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img][img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ive done some apartment searching online for cancun and here is one of the places i found:

http://www.torreshuitzilin.com/

how awesome would it be to live in a place like that?

i threw in austalia because ive heard they dont tax gambling winnings but besides that i dont have much interest there. sounds like nice beaches and at least its a big country so im sure there is plenty to do where i wont get bored. in a small isolated place like aruba all you have to offer you is beaches and liquor.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
i really dont want this to turn into a tax credit question. the purpose of this thread was to ask about how to obtain permanent residence in a foreign country and what the tax rates are in those countries.

[/ QUOTE ]

For Australia, you can start with their immigration page.

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

I lived in a similiar place to that (though admittedly not as nice, at least by the pictures) in Rosarito, Mexico (30 minutes south of Tijuana on the Baja Coast) for about a month last year.

It was an awesome experience (especially since it was during spring break.... my god I've never gotten so much tail so easy) and I think you'd like Cancun. I would have rather lived there, but Rosarito was closer/cheaper for me at the time.

Aruba also seems like a similiar kind of dynamic. You might also want to try San Jose, Costa Rica (PM geormeit, I think he's living there now). I could easily see living in one of these places for a year.

The other great thing about living in Mexico was the ridiculously cheap groceries / food. For under 100 pesos ($9), I bought 3 dozen eggs, 20 strips of bacon, a 2 gallon jug of Sunny D, a huge package of hash browns, and a huge ass bottle of ketchup from the grocery store. If I didn't feel like cooking, $1 tacos and $3 burritos were 2 blocks from my condo.

Damn... I think I might move to Cancun for a month this year during spring break... this all sounds too tempting [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

thanks AAsooted this is exactly what im looking for. do they have links like this for aruba and mexico by any chance?

Re: Moving to Aruba/Cancun/Australia tax/residency questions
 

Also, tourist cards are good for up to 180 days in Mexico and are pretty easy to get. Go to the nearest mexican consulate for a resident visa that will be good for more than 180 days (no idea how long).