Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1:

Compliments of PokerGeek
PokerStars NL Hold'em Tournament - 800/1600 Blinds (9 handed)

Starting Stacks
Seat 1: CO (T99988)
Seat 2: Button (T16575)
Seat 3: Small blind (T56959)
Seat 4: Big blind (T29269)
Seat 5: UTG (T35084)
Seat 6: UTG+1 (T1049)
Seat 7: MP1 (T32310)
Seat 8: MP2 (T17210)
Seat 9: LP (Hero) (T50349)

Preflop: Hero is LP with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero raises (4000), CO folds, Button folds, Small blind folds, Big blind calls (2400)

Flop: (T8800) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Big blind checks, Hero bets (8000), Big blind raises (16000), Hero??



Hand 2:

Compliments of PokerGeek
PokerStars NL Hold'em Tournament - 400/800 Blinds (10 handed)

Starting Stacks
Seat 1: Button (T31201)
Seat 2: Small blind (T7972)
Seat 3: Big blind (T12870)
Seat 4: UTG (T42053)
Seat 5: UTG+1 (T45385)
Seat 6: EP (T46334)
Seat 7: MP1 (T61233)
Seat 8: MP2 (T26004)
Seat 9: LP (Hero) (T87507)

Preflop: Hero is LP with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls (800), <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, EP calls (800), MP1 calls (800), MP2 calls (800), Hero calls (800), Button calls (800), Small blind folds, Big blind checks

Flop: (T6000) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
Big blind checks, UTG checks, EP checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets (1600), Hero raises (5500), Button all-in (30351), <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 raises (55202), MP2 folds, Hero ???

---------------


No reads because i'm a doofus that doesn't pay much attention.

i realize they look pretty ugly, so if i'm just imagining that they're interesting, call me names and such.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1: Nice little steal from late position with a suited connector but I'm stopping at the re-raise. It looks like he's picked up a pair and internet players are not going to lay this down. You are looking to nail the gut shot but I think there is too much risk of losing your stack by calling a good amount on the turn to make it worthwhile.

Hand 2: Wow this is tough. I know the open ended straight flush draw looks pretty but you could be down to 2 outs if they have flush draws. And you have to turn/river the straight card that could be a diamond. I find a better spot and feel highly discouraged doing it.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Second hand is a fold I think. I saw the hand and didn't think you could call with anything less than a set.

I think you will see Axd here far too often in a limped pot to make a call correct. I guess you can pray they have 33 and 44.

I think I fold the first hand as well. You have zero FE. His bet here screams some sort of pocketpair or set. If he was on overcards I would think he would just jam. If you are very lucky you are drawing to 10 outs, more likely you have 4 outs here I think. I think I check behind on the flop here, since there is a lot of turncards that make you happy. If I pick up a flushdraw or a straight or even a pair I think I'm planning on putting it all in on the turn.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1: you wanna know if u can bluff a gutshot here without a read???

Hand 2: I would fold, your outs might be tainted, you got a very healthy stack, I dont gamb00l.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1:

You really should have chceked in position here, hoping to pick up a better draw (turning that draw into an open ender, or add a flush). I really don't like c-betting with nothing against smaller stacks like Villain in this hand, because they seem to check-raise me very often and I feel trapped into calling aside from odds.

Given how youplayed this hand, i'd fold since i'm getting improper odds and he only has 9k behind. Although, if I was actually put int he situation, I might just reraise all in if I felt my cards were good for 6 outs. Hard to say when you're reading the action on a website.

Hand 2:

If my calculations are correct, you're the favorite to win this hand even against a set of aces and the nut straight. But you're only 38%, and you'd have to put in more than 50% of the money. At least, I think that's right.

I would probably gamble because i'd still have a nice stack to play with for the level.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Nice little steal from late position with a suited connector but I'm stopping at the re-raise. It looks like he's picked up a pair and internet players are not going to lay this down. You are looking to nail the gut shot but I think there is too much risk of losing your stack by calling a good amount on the turn to make it worthwhile.

Hand 2: Wow this is tough. I know the open ended straight flush draw looks pretty but you could be down to 2 outs if they have flush draws. And you have to turn/river the straight card that could be a diamond. I find a better spot and feel highly discouraged doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? he has at least 8 outs to the nuts no matter what pretty much. Thinking about this more makes me lean towards a call actually.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

On the second hand, I don't think MP1 has a flush draw. Why would MP1 come over the top of an all-in if he was on a flush draw? He wouldn't want to limit the pot. His all-in says that he wants the other draws out. If you only beat MP1, you're still in fine shape. There is 25k in the side pot right now. I'd figure that you're 50% to win the side pot and 30% to win the main pot. I haven't done the math, but that looks like a call to me.

First hand is an easy fold. You have no FE and possibly only 4 outs + running flush.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: you wanna know if u can bluff a gutshot here without a read???

[/ QUOTE ]

nah i knew i didnt have FE. I thought 7's and 8's were outs too. So, gutshot, plus pair outs, and backdoor flush draw. and i'm getting like 2.5:1 if i put him all in.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

meh I wouldnt make a habit of counting 7s and 8s as full outs.

My thought process goes like: "I got gutshot, gutshot no good, I fold"

PS: bet less on flop

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1: Pretty easy fold, very good chance that your gutshots and BDFD are your only outs

Hand 2: I'm tempted to gamble it up here. You're only in real trouble if MP1 has suited A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Any of you guys that posted about the final decision on hand 1 feel inclined to post the ranges you used in pokerstove?

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Am I the only person here who can't click call fast enough on hand #2? That's not a fold. I can't believe it's even close.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only person here who can't click call fast enough on hand #2? That's not a fold. I can't believe it's even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't quite say it that matter-of-factly, but yeah, that is what I was getting at.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

ZBTHorton,

Three way action is pretty sexy. I think even with possible higher flush draws and redraws you've got great equity.

Aaron

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

If my numbers are right, you have to call 50k in hand 2 into a pot of 98,6k.

I think it's marginally a gamble you should take. Ran some number through pokerstove with a variety of ranges because it's hard to nail down the villains holdings here.
But the button has a pretty wide range I think, MP1 probably has a set or a straight. I'd be interested to see the results.

Interesting hand in any case.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
MP1 probably has a set or a straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he was second into the pot preflop with 5 2?

A set maybe, but almost assuredly not a straight. I think your range for him is way too narrow.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

hand 1:

i'm getting 2.5:1 so i need like 7 outs to break even.
gutshot - 4 outs
backdoor flush - 1.5 outs
7's and 8's - i think they're good 50% or more. so 3 outs.

8.5 outs


might be stretching, but i think it looks ok.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
No reads because i'm a doofus that doesn't pay much attention

[/ QUOTE ]

How I love this sentence. All the time we get this "Just got moved to the table" or "Villain was moved to the table three hands ago" or "blah blah blah" when the fact is, that at lot of us four table MTT's, surf pr0n and post on 2+2 and consequently doesn't have a clue as to whether Villain is the Uber Rock of the Universe or Gus Hansens big brother. Kudos

Hand 1: Minraise = 60% strong hand, 20% medium hand, "what do you got?" and 20% semi-bluff (i.e. a bluff with only half the bet it should be, hence "semi"). You're behind to that range. Fold

Hand 2: That's a call. You get appr. 2:1 and that's enough me feels

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1:

i'm getting 2.5:1 so i need like 7 outs to break even.
gutshot - 4 outs
backdoor flush - 1.5 outs
7's and 8's - i think they're good 50% or more. so 3 outs.

8.5 outs


might be stretching, but i think it looks ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you hit a 7 or 8 and he actually has top pair. You will loose even more money.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

i only counted the 7's and 8's as half outs.. so i already accounnted for when the 7's or 8's won't be good to his pair of 9s or &gt;.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1: I probably would have checked the flop or bet less, a c/r would make me puke here. Looks like a fold to me after the raise.

Hand 2: Looks like you are getting 2:1, and I believe you win this hand somewhere in the neighboorhood of 30%-40% of the time, I think you can call here profitably. Good spot to get a big stack, and I don't know about you but I play much better from the lead.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1: I like the bet on the flop- but his reraise would probably make me fold. I put him on pocket pair- and he knows you were either on a blind-steal or your overcards missed the flop. You're 7 or 8 might hold up against his lower pocket pair- but i'd lay it down. Hopefully you can trap him into thinking you're stealing blinds again later, and come back over the top of him.

Hand 2: I like this hand more. I'd easily call the button with ~30k but i'm folding to the MP1 with ~50k. I like it headsup, but not 3 ways. MP1 checked the flop, maybe trying to get a free card on a junk flop- but when he re-raised, i think he has definetly on a flush draw. I'd look for some better spots.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

I would fold hand 2. At best you have 8 outs, I think.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
7's and 8's - i think they're good 50% or more. so 3 outs.


[/ QUOTE ]

I would think that your pair outs are good significantly less than 50%, against an arbitrary unknown player with such action and board.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Without reads, I'm letting the 2nd hand go. Button's all-in could very well be a push with higher diamonds, which cuts out 9 of your outs. I'm not sure what MP1 is doing here, except that maybe he has a set and knows that one of these players are aggro and will bet ou on this board. I think his raise is pretty much saying "anyone else on a draw, get the [censored] out now." Fold.

The first hand is a trickier. If BB knows you are aggro and is capable of playing back, well, that could mean he is testing the waters with his small pair. If he doesn't know or you just have no read, I make the assumption that a 9 or five lies comfortably as one of his hole cards. Assuming no reads by either party, this is a fold or go over the top situation. The question is - when? Well, you could just call here and then bet out the pot on the turn and then bet 1/2 the pot again, making your play look kind of trappy. The problem is that face cards could be disasterous with no read. So, I'd say push, put him to the test.

Argun

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

hand 1 you are too short to call the checkraise. also, i check behind here on the flop, as there are a ton of semi bluff cards that could come off on the turn (and 4 cards that give you the nutz).

hand 2 i fold. you are up against Axd too often here given the betting.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Without reads I fold hand 1. If I had a read that led me to believe he'd put me on a steal and c-bet, then I push. My rule of thumb is I've got to expect the re-raise BEFORE he does it to push.

Given the pot odds and the number of potential outs, I call hand 2. While you could be up against a better flush draw, you could also be up against 2 pairs, sets, straight draws.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1 - This is the type of flop that medium pairs love to put you on AK and try you on. If I'd seen the BB call and fold a lot I put in a 1/2 pot bet to rep the big pair, if he plays back and is strong I check and turn my gutshot. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If he leads the turn I may call depending on the turn card and the price, if an A or K turn I probably raise his lead, if he leads weak I may raise too.

Hand 2 - Boy that looks nice.

You have 27% pot equity if you are against a set and the nut flush draw/TP

You have 30% equity if vs. twopair and nut flush draw/TP

You have 47% equity if you are against 2 sets.

You are calling 24.8K into a what will be a 98.6K main pot (with your chips) making your equity 24% of that pot.

So you have the right equity to get involved in the main pot.

Assuming MP1 will get all in with you the side pot will be 60K with you putting up 50% of the chips.

If you are up against A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] you have 31% equity
If you are up against a set you have 42% equity.

I don't think two pair puts in the 3rd raise on this flop so I won't include that.

So,

You have the right price for the main pot, but the wrong one for the significant side pot.

I'm at work so I don't have time to do all the math, but air math shows its probably a slightly -EV move.

Wicked freaking stack if you call and win both pots though.

Folding leaves you with 100BB's, that's a nice stack still.

Calling and losing both leaves you with 32BB's...not the end of the world.

Calling and winning both gives you 197BB's, very nice.

I think that this really depends on how you feel about playing with these various stacks vs. these opponents.

I probably fold if I'm know I'm better than most, and call if I'm outclassed.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

FOld hand 1

call hand 2 - you have ~15 outs and based on the action, you are not up againts the nut flush draw. Maybe AKd is out there but I think you are up against set over set. You are still ok if you loose and you are a monster if you win.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
you are not up againts the nut flush draw

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you come to that conclusion?

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

(blind)

hand 1: ugh, i'd fold. if he had more chips then i'd say push/fold/call would all be ok.

hand 2: i'd call. you have plenty of odds against a set, and even if someone has a bigger flush draw you have 6 outs. of course, if the Ad were on the board this would be much more appealing.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
(blind)

hand 1: ugh, i'd fold. if he had more chips then i'd say push/fold/call would all be ok.

hand 2: i'd call. you have plenty of odds against a set, and even if someone has a bigger flush draw you have 6 outs . of course, if the Ad were on the board this would be much more appealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has 8; straight flush

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

hand 1, any reason to bet so much on the flop? he check-raises you even bigger, the bigger you bet, giving you in turn less FE if you decide to push

why not bet something like 6k? say he raises to 12k, gives you more FE if you push cause hes got more behind

though with only 29k to start, even then hes got only like 13k behind a check-raise to 12k, so i dont like this either. just let it go.

i think this is a good spot to check behind, but trying to take the pot right now isnt bad, but really no need to bet 8k. it's not like you'd bet 8k with AA, would you, on such a dry board?

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Because of the action. The only person who COULD have the nut flush draw is the button. He conceivably could push there trying to win the pot with top pair and a flush draw, but I just can't see MP1 making that play. After the heros raise and the buttons all in. I put MP1 on a set, if not top set.

BTU, I think that if the button had the nut flush draw he would smooth call your raise in order to get an over call by MP1. Makes the pot bigger and justifies his drawing to the flush. But instead, he pushes trying to knock out draws and isolate the hero. Smells like a set to me. When MP1 rerereraised all in, it definitely feels like another set. Why would he want to have it heads up with the button when the button is all in? Unless he had a huge hand? AA.

AKd is possible, and I would not be totally suprised if anyone of them had it, but I give it 80/20 that you are against two sets.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

I see your reasoning, but everyone does not always play as you would, so to discount it totally is wrong.

You mention AK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], since this is a limped pot, I'd expect to see A2-AT [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] more than AK.

Regards,
Woodguy

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

I didn't think a nut flush draw was impossible here, but it is less likely, since four of the nine diamonds between T and 2 are either in your hand or on the board already.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Nice little steal from late position with a suited connector but I'm stopping at the re-raise. It looks like he's picked up a pair and internet players are not going to lay this down. You are looking to nail the gut shot but I think there is too much risk of losing your stack by calling a good amount on the turn to make it worthwhile.

Hand 2: Wow this is tough. I know the open ended straight flush draw looks pretty but you could be down to 2 outs if they have flush draws. And you have to turn/river the straight card that could be a diamond. I find a better spot and feel highly discouraged doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? he has at least 8 outs to the nuts no matter what pretty much. Thinking about this more makes me lean towards a call actually.

[/ QUOTE ]

With one guy having a straight and one guy the nut flush draw?

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Putting someone on a straight draw here is a reallllllll stretch. I doubt u see a straight draw more than ~2% of the time.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

Hand 1: The flop bet was too big, i like betting bigger on flops (i think i do, atleast), but here i went a bit overboard, oncee i did that though, i think it's a call (well a push). as woodguy said this is a flop that small-mid pairs decide to put me on AK, i really thought it looked like a pair, and bowski was doing some math about this hand last night and he came up with he has to have less than a pair of 9's 21% or more for it to be profitable. I think that happens. So yea, i pushed, villain showed 44. i hit one of my outs, and look pretty silly calling an allin with 8 high.


Hand 2: I was freaking out this hand, there was so much to consider and the pot was so distractingly big. After like 30 seconds i decided that it was probably bad, but i was going to call. Since then, i think i'm starting to think it was good. 8 outs no matter what (well unless one of them has the same straight draw and the other a pair + flush draw. that's a bad situation, but one that i dont think happens often). Anyways, button had a set of 4's, MP1 had AdKd. And the 4's caught quads.and again, i look silly calling two allins with 6 high.

Re: Two hands (Stars 45k)
 

oh crap I totally misread BBs stacksize on hand one, I hate the flop bet even more now