Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

This question developed out of a situation that happened to me a few years ago. It's very personal, as it still kind of bothers me to this day.

Years ago, I'm living in an aparment with my sister and a friend of hers. I've got my own bedroom with an attached bathroom. My room is nicely setup. I've got my computer with high-speed internet, a large tv, an x-box, a ps2, a gamecube, and about 40 games for all the systems. One night, after a small get together when everyone has gone home, I deceide it's time to go to bed. I'm the last one up and I had been watching tv. I turn off the tv, head to the restroom and take off my contacts, turn off the lights, undress and get into bed. While not more than 5 or 10 mins later my bedroom light turns on and I turn over and see someone standing in front of my bathroom door wearing a bandana over his face. Not realizing what the hell is going on I say "What the [censored] are you doing?" It's at that point I notice that he has a large knife in his hands. He quickly walks up to me, puts the knife in my face and motions for me to turn over. "What the [censored] man" I say. I turn over and I hear him rumaging through my stuff. He's knocking [censored] over, pulling on cords, etc. He eventually leaves and takes pretty much everything I had with the exception of my tv and my computer. After a few mins the fear sinks in and I start freaking out. I wake up my roommates and tell them what just happened. They think I'm kidding but realize I'm telling the truth when they say that I'm visibly afraid and that my stuff is missing.

I'm able to figure out who it was. Turns out it was my roommate's friend. He was at the apartment that night. We check the doors and find out that they are still locked. The [censored] locked the doors on his way out! But what's really trippy is that he was inside the entire time. He never left the party. My bedroom has two entrances, the main entrance to the hallway and the bathroom (the bathroom opens to both the hallway and my bedroom). I always keep the bathroom door that's attached to the hallway locked and I keep my bedroom door locked at night. The bathroom door leading to the hallway was still locked. This crazy guy had to have slipped into my room, gone into my bathroom, and hid behind the shower curtain. That means he was there while I was in the restoom taking my contacts off holding a knife. I wonder what would happened if I deceided to take a shower before I went to bed. For almost a year I would freak out if i entered a bathroom and the shower curtain was closed.

Afterwards I wondered what I would have done if I had a gun under the pillow. Would I have shot the guy? I want to say yes, this bastard invaded my space, stole my belogings which I worked hard to obtain, and violated me. But I can't honestly say that I would have been able to pull the trigger. I used to be very anti-gun until that night... Am I alone in saying that I'm unsure if I could kill a man in a situation like that?

For those of you who took the time to read this lengthy post, thanks for sharing in on a very personal moment of mine.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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a gamecube

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Your error.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

With no experience of this sort of thing whatsoever, but with the way I feel about burglars and similar, I'd say I'd have no problem shooting the guy dead. The knife definitely tips it that way for me. If I sense any sort of potential for harming me or mine, I would shoot, I'm certain. (PS. I've had knives pulled on me before in the street, so know how this feels, and I don't think I'd shoot someone for just pulling a knife - I would if it were in an isolated place with no chance of me getting help if I go down though)

However, until I've walked in your shoes, I have no idea what would really, really happen.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

Kill... no
Beat up really bad? yessss

edit- shoot in the kneecap? yes

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I'd blow his [censored] brains out. Very few people realize how quick and easy a knife can kill you. Even if you have a gun handy, it doesn't mean the situation is over or even that you have control over it. And [censored] man, you were on your bed.

By the way, this is a great argument for not having roommates.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I don't know if I'd be able to kill him. I'd like to think that I could, but I just don't know.

Anyway, what happened to the guy? Did he get arrested? Did you get your stuff back?

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I'd shoot anyone who got close to me with a knife. Most people probably don't realize how fast and easy a knife can kill you. Even holding a gun in your hand doesn't mean anything is over or that you really have control over the situation. All the more so when you're on your bed, where you have no mobility.

This is all a good argument for not having roommates, by the way. There's always some roommate who thinks scumbags are cute and invites them in for a free scope of your house. You should have at least one place safe in the world, and if you have roommates, you most definitely don't.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

If you had a gun you wouldn't need to kill him. You could just shoot him in the crotch.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd shoot anyone who got close to me with a knife. Most people probably don't realize how fast and easy a knife can kill you. Even holding a gun in your hand doesn't mean anything is over or that you really have control over the situation. All the more so when you're on your bed, where you have no mobility.

This is all a good argument for not having roommates, by the way. There's always some roommate who thinks scumbags are cute and invites them in for a free scope of your house. You should have at least one place safe in the world, and if you have roommates, you most definitely don't.

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Why does this sound so much like Skeme's post?

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Kill... no
Beat up really bad? yessss

edit- shoot in the kneecap? yes


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I agree.

My first reaction was to just threaten him with the gun and tell him to drop the knife, but he might just throw the knife at you. I'd shoot him and feel good about it.

-Craig

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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Why does this sound so much like Skeme's post?

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Wow. What a sonofabitch. All I know is I wrote mine before his, so it definitely wasn't me.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

How do you guys handle a knife pulled on ya? Here's all mine:

1) A guy pulls it out - it's a nasty-looking stilleto, he's holding it like he knows how to use it - but he's mistaken me for a bouncer(!) in a club - one of whom has taken his girl (ie she left him for this bouncer).

I talked him around, that I wasn't a bouncer, we shake hands, end of drama.

2) A little turd and his gang called me 'lurch' or 'jaws' or something talking about my size while I was running, so I stopped and approached him. He pulled out a knife, but he looked like he was gonna faint. I remembered my 'warriors' (the movie), and told him to put it away or I'd stick it up his ass. He did, and said sorry.

3) A guy in the street (nutter I think) just pulled it out and started to call me every name under the sun. I backed away, and just walked around him, giving him a big space. He just ranted on, and stayed there. Ahh, just some nut.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

Thats pretty crazy.

Rationally (not in the situation), if you had a gun, I would see no reason to shoot him. If you pull it out while he is going through your stuff you are in control. You can tell him to get on the ground, etc, etc, holler for your roommates, call the cops, etc. If he makes any sort of aggressive move towards you then shooting him is, of course, perectly reasonable.

However, in situations like this you cannot be expected to act rationally.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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I'd shoot anyone who got close to me with a knife. Most people probably don't realize how fast and easy a knife can kill you. Even holding a gun in your hand doesn't mean anything is over or that you really have control over the situation. All the more so when you're on your bed, where you have no mobility.

This is all a good argument for not having roommates, by the way. There's always some roommate who thinks scumbags are cute and invites them in for a free scope of your house. You should have at least one place safe in the world, and if you have roommates, you most definitely don't.

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Why does this sound so much like Skeme's post?

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I wrote mine before Skeme's was up, so it's nothing on my end.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

if i felt i had no other choice i wouldnt think twice about killing them...

also if they hurt someone i loved i would also feel the same way

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

A couple of comments on the shoot in the kneecap, crotch, etc. suggestions.

I will not re-hash a shoot-to-kill vs. shoot-to-disable argument here, but, there is one crucial reason why if you have decided to shoot you do not try to shoot for any part of the body except for the center of mass unless you are extremely good.

In situations like the one described by the OP where you fear for your life you will be in flight or fight mode. Adrenaline will be pumping and you will most likely lose fine motor skills ( i.e. ability to acutely aim for a small target). Hence, the likelihood that you will hit an arm, crotch, or other specific body part is very unlikely unless you are highly-trained. This is why you aim for center of mass of your target. If you aim center of mass you have the highest likelihood to hit your target and eliminate the threat it poses.

So, if you have decided to shoot, this is where you aim.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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Thats pretty crazy.

Rationally (not in the situation), if you had a gun, I would see no reason to shoot him. If you pull it out while he is going through your stuff you are in control. You can tell him to get on the ground, etc, etc, holler for your roommates, call the cops, etc. If he makes any sort of aggressive move towards you then shooting him is, of course, perectly reasonable.

However, in situations like this you cannot be expected to act rationally.

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Only the courts expect you to act with moral perfection under high pressure circumstances. Unfortunately, it's their opinion that counts.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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I wrote mine before Skeme's was up, so it's nothing on my end.

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Let's end this charade?

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

Being able to kill him assumes you have access to your gun. If he's robbing you, it's unlikely that he's just going to let you roam free unless he's the stupidest criminal ever.

But if you did somehow get a gun, I don't think you'd need to shoot him unless he tries to attack you. And I doubt he'd try that if you're pointing a gun towards him. Likewise with throwing the knife. Probably not going to happen because then the robber loses his only weapon while you can still (and probably would) shoot.

I'd have to believe there was a serious threat to my life or others' lives before I kill him for robbery. I couldln't kill someone just for stealing my stuff.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

Throwing the knife isn't going to happen. That's more for commando movies.

Knocking your arm out of the way while stabbing your in the heart or slashing your throat is the worry. If you're not alert or look more scared than him, a practiced crook might try it.

I wouldn't shoot him just to shoot him, though. But I wouldn't spend any time talking to him while he's close enough to lunge in and disabled or kill me. He'd have to drop the knife slowly and back off immediately, no babbling and yapping about it. Shut the f*** up, a*shole, would be the only thing I'd want to say to him if he started trying to distract me with babble.

In this situation, it sounds like the guy had no time to reach for a gun, though.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
A couple of comments on the shoot in the kneecap, crotch, etc. suggestions.

I will not re-hash a shoot-to-kill vs. shoot-to-disable argument here, but, there is one crucial reason why if you have decided to shoot you do not try to shoot for any part of the body except for the center of mass unless you are extremely good.

In situations like the one described by the OP where you fear for your life you will be in flight or fight mode. Adrenaline will be pumping and you will most likely lose fine motor skills ( i.e. ability to acutely aim for a small target). Hence, the likelihood that you will hit an arm, crotch, or other specific body part is very unlikely unless you are highly-trained. This is why you aim for center of mass of your target. If you aim center of mass you have the highest likelihood to hit your target and eliminate the threat it poses.

So, if you have decided to shoot, this is where you aim.

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This is a good point. I'm not a marksman or great shot by any means, so id probably aim for his chest and end up blowing his knife-wielding hand clear off, making me look really bad-ass to the forensics people.

Hot forensics lady: You shot his hand right off! Thats remarkable
Me: Inside?
Hot forensics lady: What?
Me: Uhhh, what are you up to?
Hot forensics lady: Dont you have somewhere else to be, like, not here?
Me: ....Inside?

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I think the situation becomes more interesting if he had a weapon hidden in a closet (or whatever).

As soon as the scumbag leaves the room you can grab it and chase after the guy, but then what? I think a fair amount of ootiots would say chase and shoot the guy if he won't stop.

Personally, if you aren't in danger anymore I don't think it is worth it. Stuff is just that, stuff. Not worth killing someone over.

Perhaps even more interesting: Same situation, but you have the gun under your bed or in a bedside drawer. If the crook says "I don't want to hurt you, I just am going to take your things and leave. Be calm, and I will be gone in two minutes." Do you go for the weapon or let him take your stuff and leave?

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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If the crook says "I don't want to hurt you, I just am going to take your things and leave. Be calm, and I will be gone in two minutes." Do you go for the weapon or let him take your stuff and leave?

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If I had time to grab it, definitely. I'd say, "Look, I don't want to kill you, so be calm, leave my [censored] and leave, and it won't happen."

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I don't think there's many guys who couldn't be on top of you before you had a drawer open and a gun in your hand, much less one pointed at him. If you're reaching off the side of the bed, you're going to be turned away from him with the gun not even pointing at him if you get it. Your body will be unstable too, if you start off just lying on your bed, with nothing but momentum holding you up, unless you swing your legs off the bed first to stabilize yourself. Hopefully you've been working those Six Minute Abs tapes.

Basically I think you'd have to be a very good distance from the guy not to have him on top of you. Heck, if I thought a guy was going to pull a gun out on me -- and what else would he think? -- I'd jump on him and be landing really hard in a second or so. With my knife. Maybe landing at the same time I do.

Definitely reaching for a gun when your life is not in danger, unless you think he's going to kill you anyway, is not something I'd want to take a chance at.

If he wanted to tie me up, it might be different. That's more what sick bastards and deviates do than someone who wants to grab yout t.v., loose cash, and jewelry and run out the door.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I'd definately enjoy taking a shot at a guy's ass as he is leaving the scene. As far as shooting him in the act, if someone was lifting my [censored] and I had a gun under my pillow, I would most likely let him go and call the cops. I have insurance. If he threatens me witha knife I shoot him. Then I probably piss on him.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

I would never pull a gun on someone unless i was sure i'd have no qualms using it. That said; this guy would be soooo dead if i had a gun. If this was in my kitchen; i'd like to think that i'd give him a 'break' and give him a chance to run. My bedroom... thats my fkin bedroom; + it'd b scary to hav some random armed donkey there.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]


Perhaps even more interesting: Same situation, but you have the gun under your bed or in a bedside drawer. If the crook says "I don't want to hurt you, I just am going to take your things and leave. Be calm, and I will be gone in two minutes." Do you go for the weapon or let him take your stuff and leave?

[/ QUOTE ]

i say "do you want some fries w/ that" and i go to sleep... if i believed him;

if i didnt completely believe him (i likely wouldnt)......

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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...you have the gun under your bed or in a bedside drawer.

[/ QUOTE ]

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"...I just am going to take your things and leave."

[/ QUOTE ]

"No, you're not." BANG.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

im not a fan of guns since stats show guns in the house are more likely to injure/kill someone they're not intended for rather than protect the home. i think the only way i would have one is if i lived by myself so if i heard someone in my house i knew no one else should be there.

having said that if someone enters my home i take them as a threat to my personal safety. i dont know what the person is looking for, what weapons he's carrying, and what he is capable of doing. id shoot to kill for my safety.

in your situation if he's already threatened my life w/ a weapon id be even less hesitant to shoot to kill. that's my answer sitting at my computer. put in the real situation i dont think my answer would change.

bwana

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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im not a fan of guns since stats show guns in the house are more likely to injure/kill someone they're not intended for rather than protect the home.

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By this logic, none of should play p*ker since statistics show most people will lose money at it.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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By this logic, none of should play p*ker since statistics show most people will lose money at it.

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well, most shouldnt.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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By this logic, none of should play p*ker since statistics show most people will lose money at it.

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well, most shouldnt.

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Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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By this logic, none of should play p*ker since statistics show most people will lose money at it.

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well, most shouldnt.

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check your logic. i never said no one should own a gun. i said im not a fan. and then i gave a time when im in favor it.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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I'd shoot anyone who got close to me with a knife. Most people probably don't realize how fast and easy a knife can kill you.

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Knives (and swords etc.) actually do a TON more damage than guns. They just do it from a close distance. You can survive a small caliber bullet wound. It's much harder to survive a serious knife would to the torso.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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check your logic. i never said no one should own a gun. i said im not a fan. and then i gave a time when im in favor it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point was that your logic for not being a fan is flawed in my view. And this does imply to me that you feel no one should own one. If that was not your intention, fine. I misunderstood. I take it back. Mini-hijack over.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

"By this logic, none of should play p*ker since statistics show most people will lose money at it."

Nothing like repeatedly quoting yourself but refusing to correct the readily apparent errors...



Hell no I would shoot someone for jacking my [censored]. Jesus Christ, its a few hundred dollars. What [censored] point would there be to shoot him? Oh my god, my gamecube! Die [censored]! No.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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What [censored] point would there be to shoot him?

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I still have my gamecube. He isn't stealing someone else's gamecubs tomorrow. He isn't stabbing me or someone else tomorrow.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

Yeah, I guess pre-empting a potential future gamecube theft is pretty much the weightiest concern running through someone's mind...

Very, very, very rarely do people engaged in petty theft stab or otherwise hurt anyone who isn't resisting in some way. As smarter posters than me already made abundantly clear in this thread, you run a big risk escalating the situation.

On a more personal level, you just [censored] suck. I like internet tough-guys like you, who shoot to protect their gamecubes...oh well, not my fault you completely and totally [censored] suck.

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

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Hell no I would shoot someone for jacking my [censored]. Jesus Christ, its a few hundred dollars. What [censored] point would there be to shoot him? Oh my god, my gamecube! Die [censored]! No.

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i wouldnt shoot someone for the theft. im shooting someone for threatening my life.

i dont care if he comes in and steals a gamecube or doesnt steal anything. he has cajones to break into the house, we're now isolated in my bedroom and hes wielding a knife. i dont want to give this person the leverage and leave it up to him to dictate whether he just wanted to scare me w/ my life so i wouldnt give him any trouble or he's actually going to act upon it. the consequences are literally deadly for me and i dont want to leave it up to him to decide this.

bwana

Re: Would you kill a man who\'s robbing you? (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very, very, very rarely do people engaged in petty theft stab or otherwise hurt anyone who isn't resisting in some way. As smarter posters than me already made abundantly clear in this thread, you run a big risk escalating the situation.

On a more personal level, you just [censored] suck. I like internet tough-guys like you, who shoot to protect their gamecubes...oh well, not my fault you completely and totally [censored] suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bolded part may be true, but it's also likely someone else will resist. And yes, shooting him is escalating the situation. Thanks for pointing that out.

It has nothing to do with being a tough guy, on the Internet or elsewhere. The fact is that it is my gamecube. I worked for it. I view thieves pretty much the same way I view cockroaches. When one enters my bedroom, it has given up its right to live. I do not view the thief's life as having any inherent value.