New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

So I'm playing some 1/2 5 max this morning.

They are taking rake out by the dimes, and I can't figure out the ratio.

Can anyone help?

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Rake Structure

The rake is defined below for each game which we spread and is calculated as 5% of the matched bets in the pot. We do not charge rake if there isn't a flop ("no flop, no drop").


Structured games (limit)

* $0.25-$0.5 to $0.5-$1
$0.05 is raked for every $1 in the pot up to a maximum of $1.50.


* $1-$2
$0.25 is raked for every $5 in the pot up to a maximum of $1.50.


* $2-$4 to $50-$100

Number of players $20 pot $40 pot $60 pot Max rake
2-3 - - - $1
4-5 $1 $1 - $2
6-10 $1 $1 $1 $3



Pot-limit and no-limit

* $0.25-$0.5 to $0.5-$1.0
$0.05 is raked for every $1 in the pot up to the max rake (see below).

Number of players Max rake
2-3 $1
4-5 $2
6-10 $3


* $1-$2 to $2-$4
$0.25 is raked for every $5 in the pot up to the max rake (see below).

Number of players Max rake
2-3 $1
4-5 $2
6-10 $3


* $5-$10 and up
$1 is raked for every $20 in the pot up to the max rake (see below).

Number of players Max rake
2-3 $1
4-5 $2
6-10 $3

Rake Table

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

This is how it's always been.

But with the update this morning - I think it might have changed.

Can't find the new one? maybe it's now 5% based on each $2 for 1-2?

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

definitely worse now - can be as high as 10% even at $20+ pots. b*tches.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Good luck figuring it out - their website still lists the rake for $2/$4 as $1 taken out at $20, when it hasn't been that way for quite a few months

PokerRoom does way too much of this "stealth" rake changes and never acknowledges the new structure anywhere. And this change is pretty harsh too, way out of line with most other online rooms.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good luck figuring it out - their website still lists the rake for $2/$4 as $1 taken out at $20, when it hasn't been that way for quite a few months

PokerRoom does way too much of this "stealth" rake changes and never acknowledges the new structure anywhere. And this change is pretty harsh too, way out of line with most other online rooms.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for kicks, get a HH for every hand you win. Calculate what the rake should be under the published rake schedule. Cut and paste the rake schedule into an email along with your hand histories and ask for a refund of the excess rake.

--Zetack

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

I have noticed the timing of their increased rake schedule coincides with their bonus offering. I think I may pull my money out of PokerRoom as I rarely play there anyway.

Thank you,

Jim Kuhn
Catfish4u
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

and when people want to bitch about rake they always bring up Party Poker. Go figure.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

PR was my favorite site, I'm done there now. A rake increase like this kills a low limit player like me.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

These sites take their players for granted. I just would like the CEO's to remember the day when they had 2 half full 1/2 tables and one short 10/20 full, because I do......... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

now its $2 out on every $20... not sure if the site lists that now.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

The rake structure at low limits has changed so that either up to .40 is raked from the pot, or $1 or more. This basically eliminates the partial player points towards clearing bonuses.

I can confirm this in practice, too, as I played ~750 hands of 100NL earlier, and all my pots were raked .40 or less, or $1 or more.

Guess this devalues their bonuses, especially at lower levels.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

That is pretty slimy IMO.
jumping from .40 to $1 rake
when you need .50 to start clearing the bonus.
definately hurts at $1NL

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

I was worried about this too, but the rake hits $1 a lot sooner than before. I'm talking from $1/$2 limit experience, but now the player point ratio is one point per 2.34 hands while it used to be one point per 3 hands.

The rake increase will account for a -0.4 BB/100 winrate change if I'm not mistaken.

The FAQ lists the new rake method now, however it's a little too complicated to reiterate here so just go check it out.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

for 1NL they are taking .40 from a $4 pot,
but dont take over .50 till $18, where they take $1.
Bonus was bad enough at low NL before this crap.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

That may be true, but it is so because they effectively doubled the rake once it gets to $10 to $1 instead of it being $.50. So you may be getting points faster, but you are paying a lot more in rake than you were a week ago.

any room that rakes $2 pots at 1/2 is
 

any room that rakes $2 pots at 1/2 level is a room i never never want to play at. That is just sad how greedy that room is omfg

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
definitely worse now - can be as high as 10% even at $20+ pots. b*tches.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bullshit. PR can kiss my ass now. I used to like that site.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

This site wants to make poker, similar to 3 card poker and roulette. I suspect the low stakes players on the site will be all the morons who think poker is the same thing as those games..... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

The increased rake might be a move to increase winnings for the upcoming introduction on the london stockmarket... higher numbers -> higher price on stock upon introduction -> more money for current shareholders

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

All about what the market will bear. As prices (rake) rises demand decreases. Depends on how much I guess.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

not surprisingly, the clueless remain clueless. look at how many players still do party/skins limit where .50 is taken at $5.00. outrageous.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

I think that the few players who play there need to boycott their site, and make it known to management.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

these guys are PIGS this is the second rake increase in a year...

They used to have the best rake schedule for short LHE games..very bad move by them.. loyal knowlegable players will leave for good if they havent already.

I just deposited a G for the $200 bonus I'm going to study the rake schedule carefully and if they are pulling this crap in the $3-6 and $5-10 games..I'm gone for good. I never play there anyway..soft sucks so bad. So fuggin greedy..problem is they have tons of micro games where they make most of their profit and most players are unaware of the huge impact rake increase have on very low limit games. Some pencil pusher jammed this one down management's throat.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Glad I got the bonus done last week.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Figuring limit, 5 or more players rates from their stupid little chart:

.25/5: any flop 2.5c (figure they round up, anyone confirm?), 10c at $1, 25c at $3.

.5/1: any flop 5c, 20c at $2, 50c at $6.

1/2: any flop 10c, 40c at $4, $1 at $12.

2/4: any flop 20c, 80c at $8, $2 at $24.

3/6: any flop 30c, $1.20 at $12, $3 at $30

5/10: any flop 50c, $2 at $20, $3 at $60

10/20: any flop 50c, $2 at $40, $3 at $120.

25/50: any flop 50c, $2 at $100, $3 at $300.

Continued along that vein; I don't remember how high PR spreads.

So for 10/20 and up this is probably pretty good. Absolutely awful below that, though.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Note that they also dropped their max rake cap from 6 players or more to 5 or more.

Edit: actually they dropped each level down one. The levels were previously 2-3, 4-5, and 6-10; now they're HU, 3-4, and 5-10.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

those numbers are ridiculously high. Very few players can be long term winners paying 10% rake on every pot. I just hope other sites won't make the same changes!

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
those numbers are ridiculously high. Very few players can be long term winners paying 10% rake on every pot. I just hope other sites won't make the same changes!

[/ QUOTE ]

With these new rake changes the lower limit games at Pokerroom are unbeatable in the long run. Those are the unpleasent facts of the situation.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
those numbers are ridiculously high. Very few players can be long term winners paying 10% rake on every pot. I just hope other sites won't make the same changes!

[/ QUOTE ]

With these new rake changes the lower limit games at Pokerroom are unbeatable in the long run. Those are the unpleasent facts of the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you show me the average rake per hand before and after the change, and convert that to BB/100?

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Hmm... they seem to have increased the % but lowered the cap. Since the max cap is still $3 (as previous) but also not more than one big blind this should mean a lower rake at lower limits (where the big blind is under $3). At $0.50/$1 the max rake is suddenly just $0.50... Also the heads-up rake seems a lot lower than before.

The Quirky Kirko

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

What does PokerRoom.com's rake structure look like?

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm... they seem to have increased the % but lowered the cap. Since the max cap is still $3 (as previous) but also not more than one big blind this should mean a lower rake at lower limits (where the big blind is under $3). At $0.50/$1 the max rake is suddenly just $0.50... Also the heads-up rake seems a lot lower than before.

[/ QUOTE ]

A LOT lower. I don't understand all the fuss. If you guys read the actual chart, more hands will be raked (I don't see a no flop, no drop rule, for instance), and the rake at each cut-off point will be high, but the cap on ANY pot is one big blind, max $3. So if you are playing a 2/4 table, you'll never see a $3 rake. Ever. At 10/20, the biggest rake is $3, which you'll see on any pot of $40 or more.

It does mean the lower limits can't clear bonuses. A .25/.50 table will never be raked at .50, so you'll never get any points. A .50/1 table can only clear a half a point at a time, and they'll only do that if the pot is $6 or more.

I'm sorry, but you guys need to read before you start grousing. It isn't clear to me at all that this will increase the total take for PR.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

For 5-10 players for NL:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Pot Size(BB) 4BB 4+ 12- 12+ 20 32- 32 40
Rake(BB) .1BB .4 .4 1 1 1 2 2
Rake(% PotSize) 2.5% 10 3.3 8.3 5 3.1 6.3 5

Max Rake($) 0.5 2 2 3 3 3 3 3
Rake Cap'd $5BB 5 5 3 3 3 1.5
(Game $BB)
</pre><hr />

At the break points: 4BB, 12BB and 32BB the rake as a proportion of the pot is 10%, 8.3%, and 6.3% respectively.
It declines until the next higher break point, in any, to 3.3%(@12-) and 3.1%(@32-).

Depending on the size game you play the rake cap may or may not affect you, e.g the $0.50 rake cap at 4BB is not relevant unless your game has a BB of $5 or more.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Figuring limit, 5 or more players rates from their stupid little chart:

1/2: any flop 10c, 40c at $4, $1 at $12.

So for 10/20 and up this is probably pretty good. Absolutely awful below that, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had just returned to Poker Room with this last reload bonus. Hadn't played there since March when I was playing .25/.50. Once I moved to .50/1.00 I left as the bonus was basically unclearable that that level and there were better opportunies elsewhere.

At 1/2, figured it would be slowly clearable so gave it a shot. Have noticed the points seemed to be accruing much faster than I had expected. Guess this explains it.

Will clear the bonus and depart immediately thereafter.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

Hi all,

Just a few clarifications regarding the recently updated PokerRoom.com rake structure.

But first of all I hope that all of you bear in mind that basing the rake on Big Blinds instead of Pot Size is an entirely new system designed to equalize the percentage of rake paid by players of various levels. We believe doing so is fair. However, as an entirely new system it may need certain adjustments not spotted in our extensive simulations.

1. The new rake structure tables have been available since yesterday. A link to the new structure was also posted in our news section yesterday.

2. We still incorporate a No Flop No Drop policy. Naturally. The tables will be updated to clarify that.

3. The overall drop in player points received is an effect we did not anticipate, intend nor did it surface during our extensive analysis. The Player Points system will therefore undergo an overhaul to adjust to the new structure and distribute more points.


4. Certainly certain games on certain levels will now have to pay a slightly higher rake than before, but do notice that others will pay way less. All heads-up games as well as high-stakes limit games are obvious examples of this.

5. The new, more dramatic cut-off point in paid rake can unfortunately lead to certain pots being raked around 9-10%. Do note however that these are extreme situations that only occur when a pot reaches a certain, exact size.

Examples:

Limit 5-10 players

1/2 LEVEL
Pot size $11 total rake $0.40
Pot size $12 total rake $1
Pot size $29 total rake $1

2/4 LEVEL
Pot size $23 total rake $0.80
Pot size $24 total rake $2
Pot size $48 total rake $2


Finally we do appreciate all of the feedback and comments received from all you 2+2 users.
Nothing beats hearing first-hand what the players themselves have to say.

C u at the tables!

PokerRoom.com
Meet Them and Beat Them

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

"1. The new rake structure tables have been available since yesterday. A link to the new structure was also posted in our news section yesterday. "

As opposed to an email to your customers explaining the change, i.e. the rationale and likely effect. You didn't want everyone to know exactly what was happening?

You would be well served to have full and complete disclosure ahead of time so that questions such as "10% rake!" and "What about my Player Points?" would surface and be handled adroitly, not have to be addressed incompletely after the fact.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if you are playing a 2/4 table, you'll never see a $3 rake. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
In a typical session of about 100 hands, I see two, maybe three pots raked $3. The rake increase to 10% at certain other pot size break points will have a much greater impact than the reduction of the rake cap.

The only games I see this helping are the low end NL where the pot sizes are often huge compared to the size of the blinds. $100NL players will be getting a huge break. Low end limit players are getting screwed.

I would also submit that a work slowdown would be a much more effective means of protest than a boycott.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if you are playing a 2/4 table, you'll never see a $3 rake. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
In a typical session of about 100 hands, I see two, maybe three pots raked $3. The rake increase to 10% at certain other pot size break points will have a much greater impact than the reduction of the rake cap.

The only games I see this helping are the low end NL where the pot sizes are often huge compared to the size of the blinds. $100NL players will be getting a huge break. Low end limit players are getting screwed.

I would also submit that a work slowdown would be a much more effective means of protest than a boycott.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play and intentionally slow down the tables to "protest", I hope your account gets banned. That is just stupid. If you don't like the rake, go somewhere else. Do you think that if a bunch of people slowed the games down they would just lower the rake across the board? That is stupid.

Re: New Pokerroom Rate Structure?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[The only games I see this helping are the low end NL where the pot sizes are often huge compared to the size of the blinds. $100NL players will be getting a huge break.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have got to be kidding.
This doesnt help $100NL