Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($210.85)
UTG ($61.55)
Hero ($219.11)
Button ($90.55)
SB ($297.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $45</font>, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($106) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $75</font>, Hero calls $75.

River: ($256) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero pushes...

Villain is 22/22 over 40 or so hands. He once minraised preflop on the button and I raised him back and he folded. Seems decent but agressive.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

I am guessing you played it this way because of your read, at least I hope so (and I'm not missing something). My default here is is like half pot on the flop, fold to a raise.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I am guessing you played it this way because of your read, at least I hope so (and I'm not missing something). My default here is is like half pot on the flop, fold to a raise.

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I think your default is bad in this particular game.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Wow, really? Do you mean the players at these stakes are hyper-aggressive or something, ie. he's bluffing on the flop and turn?

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

I tend to re-raise on the turn in order to try to get a lone-ace (definately looks like a strong ace that thinks you missed the flop as well) to pay for his turn-bet and to avoid sticky situations if the river is an A or a K.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

I see him playing like this with any PP, maybe some broadways... and any queen, atleast up until river, unless he's getting tricky. He's obviously not folding any queen but pretty much anything else I'd think he does. I like

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

I think this line is pretty much perfect.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I see him playing like this with any PP, maybe some broadways... and any queen, atleast up until river, unless he's getting tricky. He's obviously not folding any queen but pretty much anything else I'd think he does. I like

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Ok, what am I missing here? I could never play the hand this way. Are you thinking these are his holdings because of his stats after only 40 hands?

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I see him playing like this with any PP, maybe some broadways... and any queen, atleast up until river, unless he's getting tricky. He's obviously not folding any queen but pretty much anything else I'd think he does. I like

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Ok, what am I missing here? I could never play the hand this way. Are you thinking these are his holdings because of his stats after only 40 hands?

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It's not just stats. I've seen him play agressively. He knows I have a wide range here on my PF and flop bets.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I see him playing like this with any PP, maybe some broadways... and any queen, atleast up until river, unless he's getting tricky. He's obviously not folding any queen but pretty much anything else I'd think he does. I like

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Ok, what am I missing here? I could never play the hand this way. Are you thinking these are his holdings because of his stats after only 40 hands?

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because of
"Villain is 22/22 over 40 or so hands. He once minraised preflop on the button and I raised him back and he folded. Seems decent but agressive."

1) he seems to be aggressive preflop 2) the rest he said(especially the part about being aggressive) 3) I assumed xorbie had an aggressive image aswell so he might very well be playing back 4) it's party

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

By the way, I usually three bet this flop just because I don't like people screwing around against my continuation bets. In a vacuum, I like your line best.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

I think the river is borderline. I'm not sure if he is very likely to call with the hands you are beating. I think you are very often ahead here, but if he is decent he will likely lay down his 44-99 (minus 77) to the river bet. Personally I don't think he is likely calling enough to make it worth losing your stack to an oddly played Q or 2 or 77 that hit.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Hmm, by the way, aren't you just folding out worse hands (barring JJ) and letting better hands get your money here? He might fold a 2 aswell but that's pretty much it

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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Hmm, by the way, aren't you just folding out worse hands (barring JJ) and letting better hands get your money here? He might fold a 2 aswell but that's pretty much it

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What Q or 2 checks here? I mean, I'm obviously calling.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Reraise on the flop and then if he goes over you fold. He has to turn over a monster to call you on the flop or raise you on the flop.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Hard to evaluate the flop in a vaccuum. You went with your gut at the table and that is fine. I don't get the river push. I guess your trying to get him to lay down the hands that beat you 2x, 77, JJ, KK-AA. I suppose the first three are possible, the last two seem unlikely given preflop play. And if you have the better hand, you are missing value as he's not calling you without a queen, whereas he may call a small river donkbet with hands you beat.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

It's noteworthy that he folded to your preflop reraise in a previous hand, but are these aggressive players really the type that we want to try this move on? Isn't it better if it's a tight-weak guy?

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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It's noteworthy that he folded to your preflop reraise in a previous hand, but are these aggressive players really the type that we want to try this move on? Isn't it better if it's a tight-weak guy?

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Huh? The point of the preflop hand was that this guy is willing to steal, and isn't donking around with power hands preflop. After his preflop call I put him on a PP or some decent big cards/decent ace. I think JJ+ reraises here given how aggro he is. On the flop, his checkraise tells me he very likely doesn't have a Q, but my call tells him I'm kinda afraid. I think the turn I should push, because the pot is big enough that protecting from a possible 6 outer is a worthy goal, but at no point in this hand did I really think I was behind his range.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

What hands make a mistake against you on the river? After taking a glance at the stack sizes it's not as bad as it looks at first, but I still don't get it. Normally you bluff if you can't win by checking... representing a hand that's just a little bit better than what you actually hold is a recipe for making -EV bets. Did you actually expect him to call with something worse? Or you were making this (small?!) bet to somehow move him off of exactly AA/KK/JJ?

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I think this line is pretty much perfect.

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I think that quote is pretty much tainted. i still see Q-rag calling this. i would've checked behind.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I think this line is pretty much perfect.

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I think that quote is pretty much tainted. i still see Q-rag calling this. i would've checked behind.

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While I may be completely baffled by the river bet, I can say with some degree of certainty that he was not trying to bluff this guy off of the top boat with a 1/3 pot bet.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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I think this line is pretty much perfect.

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I think that quote is pretty much tainted. i still see Q-rag calling this. i would've checked behind.

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While I may be completely baffled by the river bet, I can say with some degree of certainty that he was not trying to bluff this guy off of the top boat with a 1/3 pot bet.

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i never said hero was trying to bluff villain out of the hand, i'm just saying why the hell wouldn't you check behind?? you close the action.

i'm really only seeing better hands calling you.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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Wow, really? Do you mean the players at these stakes are hyper-aggressive or something, ie. he's bluffing on the flop and turn?


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Party Poker player's are substantially worse then you're giving them credit for.

Also I like the play. When he checks to you on the river I doubt he does that with a Q.

I would not be surprised to see him have unimproved ace high here, but I don't think he calls with less then KK based on the size of the bet vs the size of the pot. But then again I STRONGLY doubt he would just flat call PF with KK-AA

Edit: When I reread the betting I really think he was just playing back at xorbie's "Continuation Bet" with either a small pair or AJ/AK. And the turn bet was trying to get him to lay it down... it failed... so he checked.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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i still see Q-rag calling this.

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You do realize that the board is QQ227? Q-rag makes a boat just like AQ. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($210.85)
UTG ($61.55)
Hero ($219.11)
Button ($90.55)
SB ($297.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $45</font>, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($106) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $75</font>, Hero calls $75.

River: ($256) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero pushes...

Villain is 22/22 over 40 or so hands. He once minraised preflop on the button and I raised him back and he folded. Seems decent but agressive.

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I too am baffled by the river push. I guess AA/KK/JJ will fold, but I don't see him having these often and all other better hands will call because they are now boats. This will certainly fold out any worse hands that villain might have. I am confused. If you want calls from worse hands, why push? This is why I don't play 6-max.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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By the way, I usually three bet this flop just because I don't like people screwing around against my continuation bets. In a vacuum, I like your line best.

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YUCK!

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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What hands make a mistake against you on the river? After taking a glance at the stack sizes it's not as bad as it looks at first, but I still don't get it. Normally you bluff if you can't win by checking... representing a hand that's just a little bit better than what you actually hold is a recipe for making -EV bets. Did you actually expect him to call with something worse? Or you were making this (small?!) bet to somehow move him off of exactly AA/KK/JJ?

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Bet is $80, pot is $250... you don't think 88 or 99 can find a call here? I think I am behind after this action just about never.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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i never said hero was trying to bluff villain out of the hand, i'm just saying why the hell wouldn't you check behind?? you close the action.


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Value bet, image play. Again I'm not all that concerned about having the worse hand. As it turns out, villain says "you have the Q huh" and folds, I say "no", he says "wow", I say "I think I was good unless you had JJ", he says "A high".

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($210.85)
UTG ($61.55)
Hero ($219.11)
Button ($90.55)
SB ($297.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB (poster) calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $45</font>, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($106) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $75</font>, Hero calls $75.

River: ($256) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero pushes...

Villain is 22/22 over 40 or so hands. He once minraised preflop on the button and I raised him back and he folded. Seems decent but agressive.

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I too am baffled by the river push. I guess AA/KK/JJ will fold, but I don't see him having these often and all other better hands will call because they are now boats. This will certainly fold out any worse hands that villain might have. I am confused. If you want calls from worse hands, why push? This is why I don't play 6-max.

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As always, just ignore me. The push is for $80. I now understand what you were doing. I'm not sure I agree, but I've already invalidated my opinion anyway.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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As always, just ignore me. The push is for $80. I now understand what you were doing. I'm not sure I agree, but I've already invalidated my opinion anyway.

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I'm not sure I agree either. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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As always, just ignore me. The push is for $80. I now understand what you were doing. I'm not sure I agree, but I've already invalidated my opinion anyway.

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I'm not sure I agree either. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I see it now too. I wish I could quickly logically deduce opponents' hand ranges at the table like that.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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As always, just ignore me. The push is for $80. I now understand what you were doing. I'm not sure I agree, but I've already invalidated my opinion anyway.

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I'm not sure I agree either. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I see it now too. I wish I could quickly logically deduce opponents' hand ranges at the table like that.

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I wish I could too. Fortunatly I only have to post the hands where I play correctly (results oriented style).

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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What hands make a mistake against you on the river? After taking a glance at the stack sizes it's not as bad as it looks at first, but I still don't get it. Normally you bluff if you can't win by checking... representing a hand that's just a little bit better than what you actually hold is a recipe for making -EV bets. Did you actually expect him to call with something worse? Or you were making this (small?!) bet to somehow move him off of exactly AA/KK/JJ?

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Bet is $80, pot is $250... you don't think 88 or 99 can find a call here? I think I am behind after this action just about never.

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I'd be amazed to see them call.

I played a somewhat similar hand last week. I'd raised to $14 UTG with KK, and it was folded to the BB who called. Notes from a previous session say "very tight" and so far in this session that's seemed to have been the case as well. My image is basically TAG. Flop is QQ7 rainbow and she leads right out and I call pretty quickly. Turn is a rag and she fires out again about 4/5 pot or so. I call again. River is another queen and she checks. I can find absolutely no value in betting here and check behind. She shows 65s. My read was that her two most likely hands were 77 or nothing, and she doesn't call with either of them.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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My read was that her two most likely hands were 77 or nothing, and she doesn't call with either of them.

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I push all in every time in that spot. No way are you beat given that action, sometimes tight players play mid pockets this way, plus even if they do fold they get no info about how you play your big pairs.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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My read was that her two most likely hands were 77 or nothing, and she doesn't call with either of them.

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I push all in every time in that spot. No way are you beat given that action, sometimes tight players play mid pockets this way, plus even if they do fold they get no info about how you play your big pairs.

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If he's an aggro player who I am going to see on a regular basis I would want them to think I can't fold my big pairs.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Sometimes people really do check the nuts to you on the river though. A queen seemed very unlikely, but not impossible. Betting just seemed -EV. And getting to see her cards seemed pretty cool. 65s and 77 both look the same when she folds, but finding out for sure what she has could potentially come in handy in the future.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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but finding out for sure what she has could potentially come in handy in the future.

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The same could be said in the reverse direction.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

A lot of players wouldn't reraise jacks preflop, and a lot of players wouldn't call on the river with 88-99. It's a pretty thin value bet on the river, I am not sure if it's +EV. I wouldn't mind seeing his cards though, that's +EV for sure.

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

Xorbie,

Villian is obviously agressive. What made you decide that you were ahead? Of all the(limited) times I have called/3bet here, I am always shown a queen. I agree that he is unlikely to have a big pair, but why no queen? Shouldn't a queen checkraise the pot in an effort to build it(so it doesn't get checked behind on the turn, and then a $35 bet on the river)?

Jason

Re: Big pot with TT on QQ board.
 

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but why no queen?

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Personally I would think someone with a queen would smooth call hoping to be up against AA or KK. Or atleast see the bet as coninuation and hope if they call he'll fire again on the turn.
Personally if I had AQ here I would wait until the turn for my raise, try to get him more committed to this pot.