When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

When you're playing Omaha/8 of course!
http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...amp;hand=58433
Any 4 cards can win!

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

is there a point to this post?

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

Yes, shame there wasn't to your reply though.

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

Nice freeroll... but this happens about 10 times a day to me, so I also seem to be missing the greater purpose to the post.

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

It's a lesson in being observant and how not to play.
When I lead out the turn, and you are on the button with the current nut high but no draws you need to consider several situations, but each of them will lead to the same thing, you flat calling.
If I have a low draw and a flush draw I can be getting close to even money anyway. If I don't have the nuts, you don't want me folding. What you want is for me to bet the river into you again. If I do have the nuts, then there is no point at all you raising. So in the few situations where you are ahead raising with no draws wont achieve too much. In most situations however if you raise, you will get called. You then have to fold to any scare card river and a pot bet. The guy might have a set and a low draw, and the low flush card hits the river, he will take a shot at you with a pot bet and you will fold. The problem with saying you have x equity is that assumes when low hits you will always call if your high is good.
If UTG is bluffing though, you always want him to keep bluffing, so raising the turn costs money more often than not here, especially since if the guy doesn't fill up his set, he may believe it's good anyway since you didn't raise and pop the river once more.

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you're playing Omaha/8 of course!
http://www.pokerhand.org/index.php?p...amp;hand=58433
Any 4 cards can win!

[/ QUOTE ]

Get all my chips in when I'm certainly freerolling? What a revelation!

With insight like that into the game no wonder you're the acclaimed expert you are

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's a lesson in being observant and how not to play.
When I lead out the turn, and you are on the button with the current nut high but no draws you need to consider several situations, but each of them will lead to the same thing, you flat calling.
If I have a low draw and a flush draw I can be getting close to even money anyway. If I don't have the nuts, you don't want me folding. What you want is for me to bet the river into you again. If I do have the nuts, then there is no point at all you raising. So in the few situations where you are ahead raising with no draws wont achieve too much. In most situations however if you raise, you will get called. You then have to fold to any scare card river and a pot bet. The guy might have a set and a low draw, and the low flush card hits the river, he will take a shot at you with a pot bet and you will fold. The problem with saying you have x equity is that assumes when low hits you will always call if your high is good.
If UTG is bluffing though, you always want him to keep bluffing, so raising the turn costs money more often than not here, especially since if the guy doesn't fill up his set, he may believe it's good anyway since you didn't raise and pop the river once more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Put yourself in the other player's shoes and consider the situation where his opponent has top set and no low or flush draw? Would you not raise them back on the turn even though you are probably a 3:1 favorite?

Personally I be praying such a person reraised me so I could put one or both of us all-in.

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

That wasn't the insight, try again.

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

If that was the situation, then the hand would not have played itself out this way on the turn. When a player bets, he gives information about his hand. When UTG bets the pot in a very small pot that says one of two things. Either he is a nut case, or he actually has a very strong hand. A set with a straight up on the board is not a strong hand 4 handed in an unraised pot. There is very little value in betting the hand, and a lot more value in checking the hand and calling any bets from the button. Betting will stop anyone with a worse hand from putting money into the pot, whereas checking can certainly get a bluffer to share the love. But as stated before, if i'm on the button with the straight and I believe my opponent not only has a set, but is willing to shove all his chips in with it, then I can just as easily call the turn, as he will still be just as eager on the river to do the same. I want the guy to believe his set is good, a raise is usually enough on the turn to tell them otherwise. By just calling the turn I can look like the one on the draw and usually induce a nice pot bet from the other guy on the river

Re: When is the nuts not the nuts?
 

Your experiences and perceptions are much different that I have seen in the Party PLO and PLO/8 games I've played.

To each his or her own I guess.

[ QUOTE ]
If that was the situation, then the hand would not have played itself out this way on the turn. When a player bets, he gives information about his hand. When UTG bets the pot in a very small pot that says one of two things. Either he is a nut case, or he actually has a very strong hand. A set with a straight up on the board is not a strong hand 4 handed in an unraised pot. There is very little value in betting the hand, and a lot more value in checking the hand and calling any bets from the button. Betting will stop anyone with a worse hand from putting money into the pot, whereas checking can certainly get a bluffer to share the love. But as stated before, if i'm on the button with the straight and I believe my opponent not only has a set, but is willing to shove all his chips in with it, then I can just as easily call the turn, as he will still be just as eager on the river to do the same. I want the guy to believe his set is good, a raise is usually enough on the turn to tell them otherwise. By just calling the turn I can look like the one on the draw and usually induce a nice pot bet from the other guy on the river

[/ QUOTE ]