Do you push this flop?
 

UTG+1 is a very tight player. Something like 10/7/4. Dont think he is capable of making any moves. With no apparent draw on the board, I figured I will try to trap him. He later asked me If I had AK. His PF minraise could mean anything from a high pocket pair to AK [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I think he folded QQ or JJ.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

MP3 ($775)
CO ($351)
Button ($962)
SB ($2348.50)
BB ($2233)
UTG ($2077)
UTG+1 ($1245)
UTG+2 ($1984)
Hero ($2426)
MP2 ($1000)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10. MP2 posts a blind of $20.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $100</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $60.

Flop: ($250) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $140</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $500</font>, Hero calls $360.

Turn: ($1250) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $800</font>, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: $2050

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Looks completely standard to me.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Doesn't reraising a super tight player, who opened UTG+1, seem like an -EV play? What's his PFR?

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Doesn't reraising a super tight player, who opened UTG+1, seem like an -EV play? What's his PFR?

[/ QUOTE ]

PFR is something like 5%. He had raised(4*BB) from same position in an earlier hand with kings.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Would you ever do this without the set?

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

How offen do you reraise preflop? With his stack size I think I'll min reraise him on the flop... theres no way I'm calling with that bet. A minreraise might get a call here where a all in push will not and if called your both getting all your money in no matter what comes.

again it's a call pf against him.

Sanctus49

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

If he is very straightforward, then I would check behind on turn, raise /bet river to eek out a little extra.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How offen do you reraise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ].


This is one aspect of my game I am looking to work on. I reraise quite a bit from late position. Its all very player dependent. I play only 2 tables and make sure I watch hands I am not involved in.

[ QUOTE ]
With his stack size I think I'll min reraise him on the flop... theres no way I'm calling with that bet. A minreraise might get a call here where a all in push will not and if called your both getting all your money in no matter what comes.




[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly why I posted this. Do you push this flop against a tight player? A cold call and turn raise would work against a LAG right? A min reraise here with the stack sizes here is basically putting him allin!

[ QUOTE ]
again it's a call pf against him.


[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken. Thanks

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

reraise more preflop, i like 125/150 ok. 100 is just too tinytiny.
on the flop he already put half his little shortie stack in, so just move in.
when he calls with QQ with 2 sec on his clock and loses, taunt him in the chat box... haha you effing nit! play with me and you will get broke shortie! NUTS! etc.etc.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Whats wrong with you flawless?

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with you flawless?

[/ QUOTE ]i dont know, but i def have problems.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Ok but you should try not to take out your anger on people thats weak, and we dont want to be weak do we

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

I like how he puts you on AK rofl

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Umm, I just call the pfr, in this exact situation I push, he may or may not fold. I would put him on QQ or JJ also. Reason for pushing lays mostly in the turn scare cards 4 aces, 4 kings, 4 queens if he has JJ, 1 ten. That's 13 cards. Push and pray for a call. Plus even by just calling, turn 2 lets say, he may ck fold his QQ or JJ anyways. Calling and pushing on turn wasn't a bad play though. Just different options.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

I like the way you played it. Pre-flop, as tight as he is, with PFR at 7%, good chance he's mini raising with mid-pairs in EP (thinking that'll help him start getting paid with AA and KK, as if that's the reason he's not getting paid). Also, if he has AA or KK here, he'll let you know.


On the flop, I like the call, rather than third raise. Better chance he bets out here, or at least calls your turn bet.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

yeah then what did he fold, AQ?

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Assuming he raises all aa-jj ak/aks, aqs? what pfr % does that give him if those where the only cards he raised?

thanks NewbieStyle

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Why reraise? He's going to call anything less then 160+ (and reraise the times he doesn't call) everytime with his prf% (and make money doing it) he wins here better then 15/1 and may not get stacked everytime he's behind... like this hand. so it's a call preflop

pushing the flops fine I just like a minreraise either way could be slightly more ev I think this may factor into the metagame slightly more then a full push (allowing a minreraise later for a missed draw with a smaller pot?)all that really matters is the moneys goes in on the flop because like this hand theres really nothing but scare cards out there for him but who knows really;/

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, I like the call, rather than third raise. Better chance he bets out here, or at least calls your turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

what j9? I don't see it.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

Your preflop reraise is no good. Reraising a tight EP raiser with TT is NOT a reraise for value, it's a reraise to mix up your game. if you want to mix it up with your reraises, pop with suited connectors, not with mid pairs. Suited connectors, you'll know where you are postflop and won't get trapped, with tens you're going to get trapped for extra bets on a baby board a fair amount of time. Plus, you definitely want to take shots at his big pairs with something like TT without getting blasted out of pots preflop.

That said, given what happened, I like pushing that flop once he comes over the top.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

I still don't reraise him for any metagame considerations with any hand weaker then kk. If I don't beat him on the flop I fold the man has a 5% fpr If I could sit at my computer and have people play back at me I'll be a happy man.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

This is easy. Reraise on the flop. I would never
call here. Especially since you describe villain as
being really tight.

He may have a set or an overpair (wouldn't shock me if
he had QQ or JJ given his fold on the turn). You figure
you're ahead, so go ahead and put your money in. There's
a good chance he'll call especially since he made that
big raise to your initial flop bet. Reraise the
flop!!!

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

The only hands that make sense here for the player you described are QQ and JJ. Unless he chose this hand to play out of character, what other hands would he raise with preflop, call a re-raise preflop, then check-raise on a ten high flop and fold to a king on the turn? NONE.

That is why I think the call on the flop rather than the re-raise is correct, and why you got the most money you were going to get from him, period, short of severely underbetting the turn and / or river.

Look at it from the tight players perspective. "I've got QQ (or JJ), but this guy re-raised pre-flop so I'm afraid of KK and AA (and AK). Ok, great. A ten-high flop. Now I'll check-raise this guy... Uh oh... he called, my QQ must not be any good. A king?! That's horrible, now even if he had the AK my queens are no good. That's probably what he had and I got sucked out on again. Oh well, no way my hand is good."

If you re-raise the flop (even the min) he puts you on KK or AA (outside chance of TT) and folds. If he has KK or AA and you re-raise the flop, he probably calls or goes all in, but in that case your action is less likely to get killed on the turn anyway. Your best hope was calling and hoping that another low card hits, in which case he may or may not bet out or check call with QQ or JJ. You got unlucky and the king killed any possibility for more action.

I summary, I think that a call on the flop wins more against QQ or JJ (and maybe KK) than a re-raise, and doesn't matter much either way against KK or AA.

Re: Do you push this flop?
 

I'm not a big fan of the PFR with TT when you know you are up against a bigger pair. I like it even less when you're up against a short stack. However, now that you're at the flop stage I like coming over the top with a min-raise. If I've counted correctly this will leave him with $285 which he may just push if he calls. No matter what over-pair he has he may figure he's ahead plus he has two cards left to improve.