Flopped a Full House?
 

Stars $2/$4 NL, 9 handed

I am in the CO seat and get 44. UTG+1 calls, I call, SB completes, BB checks. (4 to see the flop).

Flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checked to me, I bet $8, only the SB calls. Turn is K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], SB checks I bet $8, SB calls. River is K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and SB bets $24, I make the crying call, and SB shows K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for the bigger full house.

Did I do anything wrong? Should I have bet more on the turn?

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

I think sometimes you just lose. However, I was thinking around $24 bet on the turn would have been better. After his caught his king, however, he probably wasn't going anywhere.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

Man, tough river. You have to realize at this point that yo're behind any 8 or K, and it seems pretty apparent he has one. Your river call really depends on your read of him. If he's tricky then a call is in order. Otherwise you might want to consider laying it down.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

Easy fold on the river. Would you call with pocket nines on that board? If not then don't call with pocket 4's.

Lousy river but no need to pay him off. I don't mind trapping here, although you should bet more like 20 on the turn, since he may be on a flush draw but once that 2nd pair hits the board you have to muck.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

i would have bet more on the turn for sure. it wouldn't really be because i was all that worried about somebody hitting a 4-outer; it's more just to get money in while you're (almost definitely) ahead.

also, if the other guy smooth-called an 8 on the flop (which is pretty likely given that he limped and then called a bet w/ a paired board) betting more will make his raise on the turn more, and then your 3-bet can be huge.

in this situation brunson recommends (in S/S) overbetting the pot on the flop because you'll only get real action from an 8 (who will likely not fold to the overbet anyway) and because your hand is a little bit vulnerable (as you learned).

(edit: originally called villain's 4-outer a 2-outer)

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

I would have looked to check raise the flop. If you give a free heart that is fine and you get paid big on the turn. The line you took was very straight forward and that is fine, however you have to lay down to the river bet. You called out of frustration when you had to put him on the 8 (the K was much tougher to nail him on). I think if you check raise at some point it may scare him a bit, but really the way the cards turned and rivered you just ran into a tough break, but you could have saved $24 on the river by not calling with a near certain loser.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

I think you just hit some tough luck. You flopped the best hand unless somebody has 88 or 84. You bet 2BB into a $16 pot on the flop. I think this was a good bet because you want somebody to catch up, especailly with the flush draw on board. I would probably bet the pot on the turn and fold to his bet on the river though.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

I think you played the hand wrong. Bet like your opponent has an 8, then you'll win a lot of money when they do.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

The problem w/ this hand is that you put $20 in w/ the best hand and $24 in w/ the worst hand.

As others have suggested, bet more on the turn.

The river call is very player dependent. Looks like there's about $48 in the pot, so it's a half pot bet. Will your opponent bluff a missed flush draw enough of the time for that to be a good call?

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have looked to check raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't check-raise when you are last to act (he was CO and Button was not in the game).

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

i would bet 3/4 pot on the turn. there are lots of hands that might pay you off, as well as hands that you don't want drawing too cheaply. if he just caught his king, then he might pay you off with very few outs, and if he has a flush draw, he might pay too. i think it would also be possible for him to have an 8 with a crappy kicker. any card pairing would bring him ahead of you as well. i am not sure if i would pay off on the river. he clearly likes that river. i would put him on an 8 or k.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

After the hand, I realized I should have bet more on the turn (3/4 pot sounds about right), and I definitely should have folded on the river.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

I agree, the river is foldable.

Re: Flopped a Full House?
 

I've made that river call all too often. It's beginning to sink in. People don't put a lot at risk on a bluff that often. The bigger the bet, the lower the likelihood it's a bluff.

Regarding the flop, Brunson does represent overbetting the pot when you flop the underfull. The logic is that you'll fold out most hands but win a huge pot if someone flopped two pair or trips. What he doesn't say, though, is what he would do if there was a flush draw. Some of the biggest pots I have ever seen won were on the occasion when one person makes a full while at the same time the other play makes a full house.

But, your opponent did not have the nut flush draw, so in my view this play was weakened by the fact that if the flush card had hit on the turn you might have folded him out anyway. If there had been a pre-flop raise indicating that your opponent might be drawing to the nut flush draw, instead of just a flush, I might have been into checking. As it was, I would have overbet the flop.