The book is paying off.
 

First time poster. . just read SuperSystem so I decided to play really aggresive. . how's it look?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">SB ($$40.10)</font>
BB ($$188.30)
<font color="C00000">Hero ($$135.55)</font>
UTG+1 ($$62.15)
MP1 ($$10.20)
<font color="C00000">MP2 ($$72.50)</font>
CO ($$75.90)
Button ($$90.80)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero calls $1, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to $4</font>, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls $3.50, BB folds, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($13) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to $32</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises to $36.1</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $131.55</font>, MP2 calls $36.50 (All-In).

Turn: ($249.15) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($249.15) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $249.15
<font color="green">Main Pot: $121.30, between SB, Hero and MP2.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero ($121.30).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: $127.85, between SB and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by Hero ($127.85).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
SB shows Th Jh (two pair, jacks and tens).
Hero shows 2s Ks (flush, king high).
MP2 shows Ac Ah (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins $249.15. </font>

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Muck that bad boy pre flop. . .after the flop you are the favorite to win the hand despite not having the best hand. .. so push it in baby. .

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Why the hell did you play that hand?

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Because I am crazy.

Plus. . . .





SPADES are too pretty to deny a flop. . .

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Im jumping on to the "muck preflop" bandwagon. Rusty, you want in my game?

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Ugg. I think this looks horrible. First, calling UTG with K2s is probably a bad play. Even if you flop a draw you're in the dubious position of having to play a draw in early position. If you're relatively new to NLHE the difficulty of playing this kind of hand in early position will become apparent. If you semi-bluff this hand (which I'm surprised you didn't do considering tht you just read SS) a call forces you to bet again or basically give up the pot on the turn if you miss (which you will probably do). In late position you can semibluff and, if you get a caller, that person will likely check to you on the turn. In this way, your semi-bluff buys two cards instead of one. To add insult to injury, you called the raise which could easily have pit you against AK, which leaves you dominated with respect to your king outs.
On the flop you immediately put yourself in the position of a caller. One of the main ways the Super System wins money is by BETTING or RAISING draws and picking up a lot of pots through people folding. Since the stack sizes behind you weren't all that large, a decent bet by any of them will basically pot commit them and ruin any hope you have of buying the pot by pushing. That is, trying a check raise here is not a good idea because you won't get anyone to fold with it. All that being said, your push wan't bad on the flop simply because you were getting pot odds to draw to your flush. The push wasn't neccessary since the chance of MP2 folding here is slim given that he initially raised to $32 (however, in your defense, MP2 would have almost certainly gone all-in on the turn or river so you were probably going to have to put the extra $32 in anyway). While you credit the Super System here, all you really did was call a bunch of bets drawing to the non-nut flush showing very little aggression and got lucky in hitting. You really have to ask yourself whether calling raises with Kxs in early position is going to make money for you in the long term.

Re: The book is paying off.
 

That is a wonderful way to go broke in that limit. You better have alot of money to burn playing that way.

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Keep reading SS. When you get broke playing that way, get

Pot limit and no limit poker by Reuben/Ciaffone.

No Way!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Keep reading SS. When you get broke playing that way, get

Pot limit and no limit poker by Reuben/Ciaffone.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, man! That book is a bunch of crazy talk. They give situations where they say it's correct to fold SPADES before the flop.

Playing like Brunson is more fun. And didn't you read ML4L's post on why you should be loose-aggressive...?

And in case you didn't notice, I DID win the pot, didn't I? Must have done something right...

RustyRussel

Re: No Way!
 

Winning a pot does not mean you "did something right." Results-oriented thinking will get you very broke, very fast.

Re: You\'re the man Mike.
 

I literally spit soda out of my nose when I read this.

Classic.

Hopefully I'll be in the big 5/10 PLHE games soon. bankroll is growing.

(But i still fold spades PF from UTG unless its AKs)

Shame on me.


Gregg

Huh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Winning a pot does not mean you "did something right."

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Explain...

ML4L

Re: No Way!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keep reading SS. When you get broke playing that way, get

Pot limit and no limit poker by Reuben/Ciaffone.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way, man! That book is a bunch of crazy talk. They give situations where they say it's correct to fold SPADES before the flop.

Playing like Brunson is more fun. And didn't you read ML4L's post on why you should be loose-aggressive...?

And in case you didn't notice, I DID win the pot, didn't I? Must have done something right...

RustyRussel

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you log on with the wrong user to make this reply?

Re: No Way!
 

What the hell, ML4L/RustyRussel. Have a split personality problem do we?

But despite Rusty's terrible play preflop, postflop he was the favorite to win.

Re: No Way!
 

dude, go down to radio shack and get yourself a sarcasm detector. i hear they're only running around 20 bucks now.

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Good play on the flop, but you wasted most of $4 preflop.

I'd say more, but I want to get my reply in before someone else says exactly what I'm thinking.

Re: The book is paying off.
 

I'm not sure whether you were responding to me or Rusty. In any event, I don't advocate SS, especially at low limits, but was simply pointing out that the hand wasn't played consistenly with it.

Re: Huh?
 

If you play K2s, I doubt you will win even 1 out of 10 hands. That's a horrible hand to play, and you won't always get that lucky, especially in NL. What happens when the flop is a Rainbow KQ4? Your pair of Kings is probably the worst off made hand on the flop with your 2 kicker.

Re: Huh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you play K2s, I doubt you will win even 1 out of 10 hands. That's a horrible hand to play, and you won't always get that lucky, especially in NL.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm now 1 for 1 with that hand, which is a 100% success rate. That would mean I should go 10 for 10, not 1 for 10... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
What happens when the flop is a Rainbow KQ4? Your pair of Kings is probably the worst off made hand on the flop with your 2 kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had KING-HIGH on the flop here and still won... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Maybe someone else can explain this stuff better...

ML4L

Re: The book is paying off.
 

i want this guy in my game!

Re: The book is paying off.
 

A few things. First of all, nowhere in Super/System does it say that you should be limping in UTG with Kx suited. Secondly, your flop raise is not what is advocated in Super/System for a number of reasons. Your opponents do not have large stacks at all, and so a fold is almost out of the question. Brunson played his draws like this to get people to fold, the draws only helped as a safety net for when he did get called. If you read the book again, you'll notice that Doyle does not advocate this system for the game you're playing in. The stacks must be much larger in relation to the blinds.

In Super/System, Doyle also cautions about moving in with flush draws, because they're so obvious. He likes moving in with straight draws because it's harder for his opponents to put him on a draw, and therefore less likely to call.

Re-read Super/System before you start playing crazy and go broke. His strategies are not meant for these max buy-in games, and he says so. Somewhere in the book he says that he has trouble winning in games where there's not much money on the table. These games we play in are a different structure than the very large buy-in games that Doyle played.

However, this does not mean that you played the hand wrong. Because your opponents did not have very large stacks, you were actually getting good odds to make that play, but you should know when you make that play that you're most likely going to get called.

Justin A

Re: No Way!
 

"Playing that way is more fun."
I thought the first objective is to win money and having fun is a by-product of that?

Scotty O

Re: The book is paying off.
 

If you re-read the NL section of SuperSystem, I believe you will find Kx discussed in the section appropriately titled "Trash Hands".

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Let me just put this out there real plain for everyone: ML4L is not Rusty. He is making fun of Rusty. I personally think this is kind of lame. On to the hand...

Pre-flop = bad - no debate there. The call-reraise push is a good play if you're confident MP2 doesn't have a set (note there's a decent chance he does based on his play). If he does, it's still not a disaster as you're ~33% to win (this would be +EV if SB had enough to cover).

It's a disaster if one of them has Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

If you're not up against a set or Ax [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] you're well over 33% to win and it's a nice time to be all-in.

When you play aggressively with this draw it's because you think you're going to be +EV if you get called (and you know the SB is sticking around cause he's all-in). SS aggressive-draw advice is more geared towards stealing pots, as others have pointed out.

All in all, I don't think this is poorly played. After the flop.

Re: Huh?
 

Hey Rusty, how come it says "ML4L" is the author of the post?

BTW, how do you feel about diamonds? [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Aren't they pretty?

Re: The book is paying off.
 

The SS strategy won't work well in most of these games because your opponents won't fold. Playing drawing hands out of position is not a good idea.

Just To Clarify Here Too...
 

Hey all,

At least bunky got the joke that I was making... I have no connection to RustyRussel. I wrote a post assuming his persona in jest and then wrote subsequent posts to see if I could get people to lecture to me about stuff that I already know. Apparently, most people did not find it funny and in fact were perplexed by it. Consider it my first and last post of that nature.

ML4L

PS Yes, tewall, I think diamonds are prettier too... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Hey screw all you guys. . .I am the best poker player I know and I can play hands like K-2 of spades b/c I am just THAT DAMN GOOD. OK?

ML4L, I don't appreciate your sarcasm. . come look me up on PokerStars under my signature handle "FatherTime69" if you ever want me to teach you a lesson ala Doyle Brunson. . .

I'm never posting here again. .

Why?

Because you guys are all wannabe poker pros and will never have the skillz that I posses. . . Bottom line, end of discussion.

I'm off to RGP to talk some real poker with some real poker players.

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Now that is the funniest damn post i ever saw.

On the count of 3, all at the same time now, repeat after me, “Rusty is a big fat controversy creating Troll”. See, that wasn’t so hard.

Re: The book is paying off.
 

Most of the posters here have thick skins, so are used to the sarcasm. As a new poster, you wouldn't know that, nor should you be expected to.

I hope you will forgive the ill-advised fun poking and give it another try. There are some very fine posters in this forum, and others, and there's much to learn.