TT multiway
 

All opponents were typical loose passive microlimit players.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds.

River: (11.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Preflop &amp; flop seem easy.
Turn I was planning to bet fold as the Q isnt that scary.
How do I play the river?

Re: TT multiway
 

I like the flop and turn bets, I would fire out on the river again and maybe fold to a raise depending on how many still remain.

Re: TT multiway
 

Same. You shouldnt check on he river. CO had a Q I suppose?

Re: TT multiway
 

If they're all loose passive then I would bet, fold if raised. If no one has a Q or 4 then you may get some value out of it. If you check-call, they will bet when they are ahead and check when you are. Either way costs you a bet, but only bet-fold has any benefits.

Re: TT multiway
 

I might try for a check-raise on the flop depending on the table but I think a bet is standard flop and turn. The river merits a bet, these guys are all very passive and with 3 of them I might get a lot of value when I'm winning. I have to call a raise because the pot is just so big, but it's only one lost bet and only when one of these calling stations is willing to raise. I don't see 4 being a common holding and a Q seems very unlikely to raise.

Re: TT multiway
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to call a raise because the pot is just so big, but it's only one lost bet and only when one of these calling stations is willing to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you will call a river raise then I think it was a mistake to bet the river in the first place.

Re: TT multiway
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you check-call, they will bet when they are ahead and check when you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

wont passive opponents check through a queen here?

Re: TT multiway
 

[ QUOTE ]
wont passive opponents check through a queen here?

[/ QUOTE ]
They might, but that is of no benefit to you, you still lose the pot.

Re: TT multiway
 

If you'd feel comfortable laying down to a raise, then bet the river. Otherwise, check/call is good. What you don't want to do is bet the river and call a raise.

If you're behind, both check/call and bet/fold are the same result: you lose an extra bet.

If you're ahead, check/call risks missing bets from hands like lower pairs that may call, and bet/fold risks an inferior hand pushing you out of the pot with a raise.

You've got to gauge how often an inferior hand raises on the river versus it checking all the way through to see if the relative gain of 1-3BB versus a relative loss of up to 12-15BB is worth it.

EDIT: Guess I better give a straight answer: if you are very comfortable with your loose-passive read, bet/fold the river. If you were in the pot with a tricky or aggressive player check/call.

Re: TT multiway
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you will call a river raise then I think it was a mistake to bet the river in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I think I'm winning very often here and will be raised somewhat rarely.

Re: TT multiway
 

I agree we're ahead on the river often. But if we get raised, I think we're ahead almost never.

Re: TT multiway
 

Not even 1 in 14 times? I can see someone being dumb with A8 or something often enough... Maybe you're right, but I really hate letting go of such a big pot.

Re: TT multiway
 

You save a bet to get to showdown, this is of benefit to you. Not saying it is the best line, but when you get an opponent to check with the best hand he had no intention of folding, it is awesome for you.

I bet this river unless I have a specific read CO or Button will take a shot at the pot with busted draws, then I'll check.

The Queen is out there, but it came on the turn so I'm not really worried anyone has one. A King or Ace is worrisome, a Queen is an odd overcard for someone to hold on this board unless they just made two pair.

Re: TT multiway
 

Enough of this the pot is so big I have to call stuff. It's a 12BB pot multiway, it's not so so big. I'd bet this river and fold to a raise, and I really don't like overcalling the river after checking unless the CO is some sort of donk.

And really this whole the pot is so big I'd have to call a river raise from a loose-passive player on a paired board with middle pair stuff is getting out of hand.

Re: TT multiway
 

[ QUOTE ]
You save a bet to get to showdown, this is of benefit to you. Not saying it is the best line, but when you get an opponent to check with the best hand he had no intention of folding, it is awesome for you.


[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. I meant in the context of this hand with only bet-fold and check-call options it really is not a consideration. If we choose check-call, then if he checks with a Q but bets with a 4 it really won't help us if we are check-calling anyway. I mean it does save us a bet sometimes, but it really doesn't get figured into our reason to check-call. It makes sense to me at least, but then again its 3am....(actually I have no idea if this makes sense, I know what I'm thinking, just not sure if what I'm writing matches it)

Re: TT multiway
 

I think it factors in, but as you said it isn't a big factor. In certain situations I definately can think when I'd like a check behind since I don't think I'm ahead enough to bet, but am ahead often enough to see a showdown, but I can't think of any at 4:30 AM either.

Re: TT multiway
 

*grunch* I'd check/call or check/raise flop and depending where the bet comes try to thin the field on turn (or flop). You can't really drop anyone out on the flop by betting and your hand is vulnerable to many cards. You got the flush redraw so there is some value if a heart comes on turn but usually I think if the fourth heart drops in you are going to be dominated here.