River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

Here lately I've noticed myself checking the river against busted flush draws headsup especially when I have marginal holdings. Is this play standard or should I have bet the river for value? I didn't have any stats on him, but this is Stars... Anyway I figured if he had 1/2 a brain he wouldn't continue his draw at a flush that obviously couldn't win. Therefore I put him on queens or waiting to go crazy on the river with quads.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Ts 7s (three of a kind, eights).
Hero has 4s 4c (full house, eights full of fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 4.75 BB. </font>

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

Don't include results.

Well played.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

Wow its the real life bisonbison! The gmail gig going good?

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here lately I've noticed myself checking the river against busted flush draws headsup especially when I have marginal holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that the flop is paired here is more important then there is a busted flush draw.

You played this hand fine.

When it comes to making the check/bet decision on the river when its been checked to you HU with a marginal hand you just need to ask yourself "Is he calling my bet here with hands I beat more often then he is calling/raising me with hands I lose to?"

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

Flop is an EZ bet.

Turn is an EZ bet.

River is an EZ bet. Why the [censored] are you not betting the river, he'll call you with any number of crappy A high hands. Checking behind on the river sucks monkey balls.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
River is an EZ bet. Why the [censored] are you not betting the river, he'll call you with any number of crappy A high hands. Checking behind on the river sucks monkey balls.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think I prefer betting here too.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

I fold preflop and bet/fold the river.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

I think you should raise preflop.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

Not that I'm all that good at value betting the river myself (currently rereading the River Play sections in SSHE over and over), but I think with no sign of strength, including limping in preflop, I would be inclined to try a bet on the river.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise preflop.

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I think we agree that calling is the worst option, yes?

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

yeah. of course you should bet the river. this is just about the easiest river bet ever!

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think we agree that calling is the worst option, yes?

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Calling&gt;folding&gt;raising imo. If the players left to act is extremely tight then maybe raising&gt;folding&gt;calling or raising&gt;calling&gt;folding, but at my average 5/10 table I would limp, easy. And playing an average 2/4 table raising would be terrible and folding really bad.

At a 2/4 table, raising from MP2 2nd in will most often result in a 3-4 way pot, and paying 2 bets to see the flop against 2-3 players would really suck with 44.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

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I think you should raise preflop.

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Readless raising is terrible, oh so terrible.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

readless raising is aweosme. Without a read limper have crap. We have a pair and a pair beats crap. We should raise and rely on our limper to just call and then fold if he misses like he usually will. How could you not raise here.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

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I fold preflop

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we agree that calling is the worst option, yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is the worst option.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
readless raising is aweosme. Without a read limper have crap. We have a pair and a pair beats crap. We should raise and rely on our limper to just call and then fold if he misses like he usually will. How could you not raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]
At a 2/4 table, raising from MP2 2nd in will most often result in a 3-4 way pot, and paying 2 bets to see the flop against 2-3 players would really suck with 44.

Your reasoning is so weird. You're in MP2 and you're playing 2/4 and you assume a raise will get you hu.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is terrible. You'll almost never get it HU and even if you do your hand has some pretty bad reverse implied odds.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you should raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is terrible. You'll almost never get it HU and even if you do your hand has some pretty bad reverse implied odds.

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With 1 limper in MP, I'm inclined to raise or fold. How often will it be raised behind you if you do limp in and then you're paying two bets to see the flop?

If you raise, as you say, most likely it won't be HU and a pair of 4's with overcards hitting in a large pot can't be good.

Re: River Checking(Stars 2-4)
 

With 1 limper in MP, I'm inclined to raise or fold.

Ok, I'm in MP with a small pair and 1 limper in. I am almost never going to get 4 folds if I raise. I am likely to get at least 1 limper behind me if I limp. 4 handed to the flop is not bad for a small pair, and if I limp and it's raised behind me and I flop a set, I'll have excellent position to c/r the raiser.

I think this is a pretty clear limp, but I don't think folding probably costs you a ton in the long run. Raising in a typical 2/4 game would cost you a lot of money.