Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Pedigree is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Pedigree raises, 3 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)MP1 bets, Pedigree raises, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)MP1 bets, Pedigree ????


Villian is 74/0/.44 for 27 hands. Is the pot (5.5 BB) small enough to just fold here or do I have to call down?

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

Instead of calling down on the river, I'd raise the turn folding to a 3-bet. Sometimes the person will have you beat and miss a river check-raise where you'll just check behind.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

What makes you think you're behind?

The guy plays 3/4 of all his hands. He may not be smart enough to checkraise with a set, so that's still in the mix, as is any 3, 6/5, A/5 and weakly played 10/10-A/A. But everything else you're crushing.

I raise here and see what happens. I don't think I could even fold to a 3-bet though. His range is just too wide.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

27 hands isn't much time at the table with this guy. If you knew he was not aggressive over a couple hundred hands, even, I'd say to call down. As it is, I think you raise and see what happens.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What makes you think you're behind?

The guy plays 3/4 of all his hands. He may not be smart enough to checkraise with a set, so that's still in the mix, as is any 3, 6/5, A/5 and weakly played 10/10-A/A. But everything else you're crushing.

I raise here and see what happens. I don't think I could even fold to a 3-bet though. His range is just too wide.

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I think I'm behind because my (very weak) stats indicates he's passive.

So if I raise the turn what's the consensus for how to react to a re-raise. I'm inclined to fold to a re-raise.

What if I raised and am called and then bet into on the river? Should I just call the river.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'm behind because my (very weak) stats indicates he's passive.


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In my experience, passives love to bet into you with a hand they perceive as "strong", like top pair on this board. he could have trips, but there are a lot of other hands you're way ahead of.
if he 3bets, that's another story: that's pretty unusual behavior, and i'd probably fold.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

His double donk reaks of a weak hand not wanting to give a free card. No way i fold here. Besides the fact that i think going to showdown here has a positive expectation finding out what the retard will donk two streets with is good info to have. He might be doing this with anything from quads to complete air and i want to know what he has. Sounds like every time your in a hand this guy is gonna be right there with you so lets find out how he plays.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

IF you raised and were called on the turn, you gotta call the river. The pot's too big to fold then.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

So the line is to raise the turn and then call the rest of the way no matter what?

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So the line is to raise the turn and then call the rest of the way no matter what?

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If i raised the turn and i wouldn't my cards would hit the muck before his 3-bet hit the table. You have a showdown hand and can't possibly put the goofball on a hand so lets just get to showdown here.

I would bet the river if checked to.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

Cool. Here's what happened. I called. The King [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] came on the river. He bet, I called.

He showed K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and won an $8.25 pot.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Cool. Here's what happened. I called. The King [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] came on the river. He bet, I called.

He showed K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and won an $8.25 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ughh that sucks but hey now you have some idea what this guy donks with. FWIW he never and i mean never folds top pair to a turn raise. NH.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

Raise the turn!!!!!!!!!

Think the chance u´re ahead is way too big to fold. But raising is much better than calling down. Heres why:

If u are behind a couple of things might happen: He can re-raise u. Then it´s an easy fold having only two outs(If he´s not a very aggresive player). That would cost u the same 2BB that calling down would. He can call u and check the river. Then u can choose a free showdown if u like(only if u think there´s a big chance u´re behind) again loosing 2BB. He can call u and bet the river. Then u may loose an extra bet.

But if you´re ahead raising has some big benefits. First u get value from your hand. Second, if he tries to bluff on this ragged board (as people often do) with a hand like KQ u might get him to fold. That would be a misstake since the pot lays 7.5-to-1 and his drawing odds are 6.7-to-1. Your hand is vulnerable, try to protect it.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the turn!!!!!!!!!

Think the chance u´re ahead is way too big to fold. But raising is much better than calling down. Heres why:

If u are behind a couple of things might happen: He can re-raise u. Then it´s an easy fold having only two outs(If he´s not a very aggresive player). That would cost u the same 2BB that calling down would. He can call u and check the river. Then u can choose a free showdown if u like(only if u think there´s a big chance u´re behind) again loosing 2BB. He can call u and bet the river. Then u may loose an extra bet.

But if you´re ahead raising has some big benefits. First u get value from your hand. Second, if he tries to bluff on this ragged board (as people often do) with a hand like KQ u might get him to fold. That would be a misstake since the pot lays 7.5-to-1 and his drawing odds are 6.7-to-1. Your hand is vulnerable, try to protect it.

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I like this post. I just really really don't like to be called after I raise the turn and then get bet into on the river. That's hurting.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

:grunch:

I would call it down. I think MP1 bet out his str draw on the flop and is now trying to bluff the trips while still on his draw.

Would anyone raise and fold to the reraise. It'd save a BB.

Edit: Nice, got my answer. I like it. Raise that turn! NH

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

I'm new to this forum, but had to put my $0.02 in here because I see this alot at 0.5/1 & 1/2 at Party.

Against a loose, erratic, unpredictable goofball I think the raise-fold line on the turn isn't good. PT stats can be really misleading for high VPIP loose players- I've seen PT numbers like 55/7/0.5 (50+hands) on players that play way more aggressive at very odd moments than the 0.5AF indicates. When I see people with >50%VP$IP I tend to discount the PT stats and trust my notes more.

If you raise, and are 3-bet you still don't really know if he has a monster hand, thinks you've got AK (they all think you have AK after a PFR) and are trying to bluff him, just had a shot of tequila and felt good, or just thought 3-betting you would be fun.

I'd call the donkbet on the turn, and call the river. The raise /fold to 3-bet "showdown on the turn" line is best saved for opponents who aren't as loose and unpredictable.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

Also, from experience, this is a fairly rare occurence that you shouldn't really concern yourself about. I call and end up paying off every now and then, but that's perfectly fine.

Re: Heads Up - What\'s My Turn/River Line Here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, from experience, this is a fairly rare occurence that you shouldn't really concern yourself about. I call and end up paying off every now and then, but that's perfectly fine.

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Wait - is that for being reraised on the turn or being called on the turn and bet into on the river? Or both?