This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

Party 5/10 6 max.

I'm in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

loose passive limps UTG.

unnoteworthy but not good guy limps on the button.

I complete.

Solid seeming but mostly unknown BB checks.

Flop

8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, BB calls, Button calls

Turn

6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, BB calls, button folds.

River 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

What's my action?

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

I'd b/f. I think he calls down a J. If you check and call, I think you end up calling down a lot of losers.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

I think I'd have to check-call.

If we bet, our only hope is that he has a Jack. And I can't fold this so we'd lose 2 bets if he's got hearts or an 8.

And we chop with any K (except the unlikely KA-KJ)...

So I guess there's more combinations of us being behind than ahead. But we're not folding.

So yeah.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

What do you see a passive player raising our river bet with? Or do you see him better a worse hand after we check the river?

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

A bet/fold for me. If he raises the river, we can safely fold this hand.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

I am check-calling this river. Its possible he flopped a straight draw and called down, but he would fold that to a bet. You are splitting if he has a king. If he called down with bottom pair on the flop, you're screwed of course. So the only time you collect is when he is holding a jack. Now that I said all that, I bet-fold. I think check-folding is weak..And he is not going to bet that jack often on that board.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

I think it is a check/call, but I expect to win this more than I lose it. I just dont see much value in betting the river.

However, against most 5/10 players this is a standard bet/fold, but you said BB seemed solid...

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do you see a passive player raising our river bet with? Or do you see him better a worse hand after we check the river?

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't know that he's passive. Dids said BB is solid but mostly unknown.

If he's passive then I definitely like your line and reasoning.

And maybe I'm too rash with my observations but I think there's enough bluffing in this game that by default we can assume it's a possibility against an unknown. And this scary river card would be a fairly likely time for that. So I can't fold.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
We don't know that he's passive. Dids said BB is solid but mostly unknown.

[/ QUOTE ] I should learn to match the reads & players up correctly.

[ QUOTE ]

And maybe I'm too rash with my observations but I think there's enough bluffing in this game that by default we can assume it's a possibility against an unknown. And this scary river card would be a fairly likely time for that. So I can't fold.

[/ QUOTE ] If that's the case, then may swing to a check/call. However, I'm not sure what hands he was calling down with to make a bluff.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
If that's the case, then may swing to a check/call. However, I'm not sure what hands he was calling down with to make a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Could be QT or 9T, or A-high.

But I've almost been swayed to bet-fold, too [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I dunno.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

I prefer bet/fold. This scary river is equally scary to the BB and I can let this go if it is raised. I'm not sure why some of you are calling here when you are raised [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

Wait, so basically everyone is saying that this is standard play(Nevermind the river)? Could someone please put me into the thinking?

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wait, so basically everyone is saying that this is standard play(Nevermind the river)? Could someone please put me into the thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of what? Which street? What exactly is your question?

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

Check and call one but fold to two. If you bet, neither player will call you with anything you beat anyway.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wait, so basically everyone is saying that this is standard play(Nevermind the river)? Could someone please put me into the thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of what? Which street? What exactly is your question?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh, sorry for being so unspecific. But basically im kinda lost in these situations. On the flop is it standard to bet here? And on the turn do we really think two worse or drawing hands just called us on the flop? Or are we just counting on the villains to be idiots?

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check and call one but fold to two.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'd definitely fold if BB is allowed to make a double bet for some reason.

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wait, so basically everyone is saying that this is standard play(Nevermind the river)? Could someone please put me into the thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of what? Which street? What exactly is your question?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh, sorry for being so unspecific. But basically im kinda lost in these situations. On the flop is it standard to bet here? And on the turn do we really think two worse or drawing hands just called us on the flop? Or are we just counting on the villains to be idiots?

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop, we assume top pair is good. But you need to charge the flush and straight draws as well as anyone with a lower pair. You can't give anyone a free card that is holding any number of hands so we bet. The turn card is a blank so we fire again. This usually results in the gutshot draws folding. The river is in question because if BB called down with bottom pair on flop, he just hit trips. If he called down with two hearts, he just hit his flush. It helps in that if he called down with Kx, where x is bigger than our kicker but lower than a jack, we will now split the pot.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

Thats really appreciated. Thanks mate.

Re: This hand touches people in bad places and is wrong
 

meh, I prolly just check/call. bet/fold is ok I guess, but I hate pushing the fold button. If you had more of a "sucky fish" read, then I like a bet because youll get calls from really stupid things like 22 and A9.