super push
 

I have no reads, because I JUST sat down at this table. Also, I am drunk.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button ($34)
SB ($146.40)
BB :#A500AF(Villian)/ ($96.70)
UTG ($59.15)
UTG+1 ($70.05)
Hero ($115.70)
MP2 ($100)
MP3 ($34)
CO ($71)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $2, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB :#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $1.

Flop: ($6.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villian bets $5</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villian raises to $27</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $97</font>, Villian calls $67.70 (All-In).

Turn: ($198.20) ?: <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($198.20) ? <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $198.20

Villian obviously likes his hand, I obviously have a billion outs (ok maybe 17). I'm not getting away from this, so I take a shot and push. Liquid courage? Or the right move? Or both?!? Let me know.

iash

Re: super push
 

sigh.

standard.

Re: super push
 

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sigh.

standard.

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appreciate your enthusiasm.

Re: super push
 

standard, but I'd rather he folded.

Re: super push
 

where do you get all 17 outs from?

Re: super push
 

You have 15 outs. But this is standard.

Re: super push
 

Standard? I agree this is +ev, and I do this all the time, but I have been thinking about this play. In cases where it is clear we have NO folding equity, why not get passive and c/c. We will be getting odds to call any pot sized bet on the turn, and I doubt villain will bet that much since he seems to love the tiny raises.

Re: super push
 

[ QUOTE ]
Standard? I agree this is +ev, and I do this all the time, but I have been thinking about this play. In cases where it is clear we have NO folding equity, why not get passive and c/c. We will be getting odds to call any pot sized bet on the turn, and I doubt villain will bet that much since he seems to love the tiny raises.

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Because the goal of poker is to get your money in with the best hand. Wierd huh?? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: super push
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Standard? I agree this is +ev, and I do this all the time, but I have been thinking about this play. In cases where it is clear we have NO folding equity, why not get passive and c/c. We will be getting odds to call any pot sized bet on the turn, and I doubt villain will bet that much since he seems to love the tiny raises.

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Because the goal of poker is to get your money in with the best hand. Wierd huh?? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Is it more plus ev to take the coinflip on the flop with the dead money or to get your stack in on the turn or river when villain is drawing dead (assume deeper stacks)

Re: super push
 

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Is it more plus ev to take the coinflip on the flop with the dead money or to get your stack in on the turn or river when villain is drawing dead (assume deeper stacks)

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Hero is likely anywhere from 52%-56% to win(maybe 50/50 against AA). Taking the pot after the push would be nice, but if it all goes in you're definately getting paid off if you connect, where as villian may get away from his hand if a heart comes on the turn. +EV by definition means that you are a favorite - you expect positive value, you can call 52-56 a coin flip, but it's of course not. While it's true that in small stakes you can wait for bigger advantages, you don't have to push small edges at these limits, but it's still the correct play no matter how you look at it.

Re: super push
 

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Is it more plus ev to take the coinflip on the flop with the dead money or to get your stack in on the turn or river when villain is drawing dead (assume deeper stacks)

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Hero is likely anywhere from 52%-56% to win(maybe 50/50 against AA). Taking the pot after the push would be nice, but if it all goes in you're definately getting paid off if you connect, where as villian may get away from his hand if a heart comes on the turn. +EV by definition means that you are a favorite - you expect positive value, you can call 52-56 a coin flip, but it's of course not. While it's true that in small stakes you can wait for bigger advantages, you don't have to push small edges at these limits, but it's still the correct play no matter how you look at it.

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We are a 44 dog against a set, and abouta 55 fave against an overpair. We are about a 35% dog against a bigger flush, just to be nitpicky.

Now, coinflipping is plus ev, but is it not more plus EV to NOT lose our stacks when we miss and still stack when we hit?

Re: super push
 

i think about these things to, and have come to the conclusion its very opponent/situation dependant.

in this case: Hero is in position and villain sucks at betting. This is the best case scenario for just calling and seeing a cheap turn/river. Villain wont put you all in on the turn, meaning you save some of your stack when you don't hit. With position on him extracting the rest of his stack when you do hit shouldn't be hard. Only negative i see here is 4 of your outs (aces) may scare his overpair away.

Re: super push
 

You are favored a against anything but a set, so yea its a good play. (But you only have 15 outs)

Re: super push
 

Although this play is standard...I'm wondering if it should be.

I see your opponent's range as AA, KK, QQ, AQ and AhKh, hell he could even have AhQh or KhQh.

Your 1st raise on the flop is obviously correct, as opponent could have any 2cards and be c-betting, so you have folding equity. After his reraise though...I suggest that you have very little folding equity and are not in a too strong situation:

Best case sinario, he has KK, no heart and all your 15 outs are good, and you're about a coinflip, however, there are a lot of hands in his range that have you crushed (against AhQh, you have only 7 outs, and he still then has redraw outs).

So, maybe pushing ISN'T best, but having said that, calling and missing on the turn sucks!

Also, I dont really like calling this hand from quite early position preflop, but we'll put that down to the liquid!

Re: super push
 

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where do you get all 17 outs from?

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I can't count. HUGE leak in my game.. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: super push
 

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Only negative i see here is 4 of your outs (aces) may scare his overpair away.

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I think this makes a great case for pushing. Not only will an Ace scare him, but a heart might as well.

I think we see Villian have AQ KQ QJ a lot here, and I don't want to give him a chance to get away from this hand when I hit the turn.