Cold calling preflop
 

is it ever right? i've gotten the impression it isn't. but it could be used profitably for deception purposes?

say for example i'm at a somewhat passive preflop table and UTG raises, i just call with AA-QQ perhaps and everyone else calls. but if i were to raise they would mostly fold.

obviously in late position raising is best to trap bets but what about early on?

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

I am no expert but I rarely cold-call. If there is no one else in the pot except the raiser I NEVER cold-call. It is 3-bet or fold. IF there are a cold-caller after the initial raiser, then I might cold-call with some suited hands that lack high card strength or offsuited hands like AQo for example. Don't know if this is good or not though.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

In loose games, I sometimes cold call suited connectors and small pairs, but generally you should either be dominating his hand range or be dominated by his hand range, so 3-bet or fold.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

You're not missing much by never CC'ing, but there are some times I think it's good:
* You have something like KQ or AJo in the SB against an aggressive yet not crazy PFR. CC makes post flop a ton easier IMO over 3-betting, and you're hand is too good to fold.
* You have a big drawing hand like QJs, JTs, T9s or PP in LP after 2 other CC's. If you're in the SB, you can do it with just one CC if the raiser is loose like 25+% PFR or the CC is completely awful and will likely pay you many bets when you hit. Also BB can't be too aggressive.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

I disagree that KQo and AJo are good cold calls in the SB. I much prefer to 3bet and drive out the BB. These hands prefer HU action. I agree about the good drawing hands, though.

I have one question, actually. An average 5/10 UTG raises, and there are two cold callers to me on the button looking at AQs. Do you 3bet or cold call?

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

Mr W:

I agree with you re: KQo/AJo in the SB. however there is many a BB that won't get the hell out of the way, that is usually when I call. default is to jack it up though.

re: AQs, I 3bet that all day long. KQs I'd lean towards calling but if the raiser is agg and the callers are fish I'm raising the price of poker.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree that KQo and AJo are good cold calls in the SB. I much prefer to 3bet and drive out the BB. These hands prefer HU action. I agree about the good drawing hands, though.

I have one question, actually. An average 5/10 UTG raises, and there are two cold callers to me on the button looking at AQs. Do you 3bet or cold call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that CC AJ in the SB is dependent on BB.

I would 3-bet AQs or even KQs because the equity edge is just too great IMO for anything else

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

one thing i like about the first idea is that the pfr will bet into you postflop and you can pop him on the turn for a larger bet. and if you do so later he also stands more chance of staying in.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

I don't think there is much deception value in CC at any limit below 10/20. There are just a few spots I'm CC on the button, and they're pretty rare.

I'm CC if UTG raises, there are two CC's and I have a suited conector, suited broadway, or medium PP, I'm on the button, and the blinds are loose enough to come along.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

I got interesting responses to a similiar question in MHUSH:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post4241350

It's worth a read.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree that KQo and AJo are good cold calls in the SB. I much prefer to 3bet and drive out the BB. These hands prefer HU action. I agree about the good drawing hands, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an EP/MP raiser I'd usually coldcall with these rather than 3-bet as well. I think the BB is usually drawing thin here (often with a dominated hand) between the two of us and I'd prefer not to give the EP/MP raiser a chance to cap. A third player in tends to keep the preflop raiser honest as well.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

I'll coldcall an ep raiser with JTs, QTs, T9s, and 89s. (especially if I'm next to act)

I'll coldcall in lp with 44-88 after two other coldcallers (or after just one if the sb and bb have vpips over 50).

I'll just call a raise from the bb if I'm already HU with a hand I want to play that isnt AA-JJ,AK,AQ,or KQ.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree that KQo and AJo are good cold calls in the SB. I much prefer to 3bet and drive out the BB. These hands prefer HU action. I agree about the good drawing hands, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an EP/MP raiser I'd usually coldcall with these rather than 3-bet as well. I think the BB is usually drawing thin here (often with a dominated hand) between the two of us and I'd prefer not to give the EP/MP raiser a chance to cap. A third player in tends to keep the preflop raiser honest as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

To clarify, I mean in the SB.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

I'm never the first to cc, but i will with pairs after one other ccer (and non-tight blinds) or with QJs/ J10s, and some others after two or one and v. loose blinds). Also, if there's a maniac and one idiot cold-caller (which has come up a lot lately [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]), i try to enter the pot with a wide range of hands, and 3-bet the better ones, but just cc with the worse ones.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
is it ever right? i've gotten the impression it isn't. but it could be used profitably for deception purposes?

say for example i'm at a somewhat passive preflop table and UTG raises, i just call with AA-QQ perhaps and everyone else calls. but if i were to raise they would mostly fold.

obviously in late position raising is best to trap bets but what about early on?

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't many positions that you want to play QQ--->AA with more callers.

True

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it ever right? i've gotten the impression it isn't. but it could be used profitably for deception purposes?

say for example i'm at a somewhat passive preflop table and UTG raises, i just call with AA-QQ perhaps and everyone else calls. but if i were to raise they would mostly fold.

obviously in late position raising is best to trap bets but what about early on?

[/ QUOTE ]

There aren't many positions that you want to play QQ--->AA with more callers.

True

[/ QUOTE ]

I want everyone to call or raise when I have AA-QQ or even AK. Though it's still a raise because you're missing out on a lot of value by just calling.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

AA-QQ is good no matter how many callers.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
AA-QQ is good no matter how many callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

more callers lowers your equity and raises your variance. If you can stand a ton of variance (not tilt one bit), then you should try and play AA multiway every time.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

any time you have more callers you have less equity, so should i not prefer to have any hands multiway?

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

[ QUOTE ]
any time you have more callers you have less equity, so should i not prefer to have any hands multiway?

[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

then what exactly was your point?

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

you want the most equity possible, there are hands that play better multi way and others that don't. So, no, you don't want to play every hand shorthanded, and you don't want to play every hand multiway.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

but every hand has more equity the less callers. so why would you prefer anything multiway?

i think we had a communication breakdown here.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

Yes, but that isn't the only factor. For example, say you have a hand that is a 60/40 dog HU. Say the BB entering would drop your equity to 35%. Your equity has dropped but now you have 35% 3-way which is far superior to 40% HU.

To come up with a more specific example, say you have 76s or 55 and suspect that an opponent who raises has an overpair. You now want more players, since your equity drops very little no matter how many people enter the pot. You only win with two pair or better, hands that will often hold up even against a large field.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

i think the concept you're not getting all the way is that multiway hands proportionally retain more equity than HU type hands.

for instance, JQs has more equity vs a field of 8 limpers than A9o has, because it can make the type of hands that can beat large crowds, and because the pot is already big enough to draw on a good flop.

If you're just up against one or two opponents, you'd rather have A9o than JQs though, because you can win by just pairing up or even without improving at all.

As you add opponents, the prospects of this hand holding up becomre proportionally more remote, and this hand can only improve so much.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

It's pretty basic stuff. Look over SSHE for a better explanation than I can give you.

Re: Cold calling preflop
 

domination, domination, domination

against a preflop raiser, expect to be getting the worst of it on any post flop bets. if you hit K or T and you get action you're [censored], more likely than not. you can't pay two bets hoping to flop an unlikely 2pr/trips/straight