QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

UTG is super sLAG (Not stupid, just super aggressive).
<font color="green">Both blinds were loose - so excuse preflop.</font>
Button is a TAG (Bitch was supposed to fold).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>,

Several different options, on all streets.
What's the best one?

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I know clark bets any2, but I think this specific hand you are best off to c/f

btn never has a worse hand, and I doubt he folds here

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I don't see us folding any hands that we beat on the end so I don't like the river.

Nitpicking the preflop cold call as well.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I don't mind not folding any hands we beat..?
Anyway, I think villian will call a lot of times even if he doesn't have a heart. Reason for saying is because this is such an obvious spot for a bluff from your side. Given A/ I'm sure villian has a hand that beats you, and probably will have to at least call since you may bluff B/ There's a good chance villian made the flush and will raise you I think my line would be c/f.
And, the cold call pre-flop isn't very nice, I think 3-bet or fold, in this case very much fold.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

Just thinking out loud.
Once UTG folds and we are heads up with button, who i presume is a tight/good player and we decided we would try to bluff him if a 4th flush came on the river would raising the turn be better?

Then you can bet/fold on the river if the 4th flush came, bet/call if your non heart straight hit and check/fold everything else and fold if he 3 bets the turn.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

Jason_t told me a little addendum to the Clark rule which made a lot of sense to me. He told me I should only be applying the Clark rule when I had the lead in the hand on the previous street.

I remember Clarking some rivers where I didn't have the initiative in the hand and it just felt bad. Now I know why.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

Not that I'm saying it's right in this situation but here is a quote from Clarkmeister himself in response to Jake the Snake:

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Jake:Betting the river here would not be a Clarkmeister.

You need to have been the aggressor on the previous street.

[/ QUOTE ]
Clarkmeister:
No. Previous action is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I´m not betting the river unless I know him to be weaktight.
I think most people will just call in pray in a pot of that size with TT-AA, which probably is what he holds.

Unless he is raising a ton, then I fold preflop.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I know Clark's feelings on that. I called it Jason_t's addendum. Just something to think about.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I would raise both on preflop and flop and fold or raise on turn. Probably fold bcause button most likely was going for a flush or bluffing.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]
button most likely was going for a flush or bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your kidding.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I thought clarkmeister was taling about when we had a decent holding and betting the 4 flush, not Q hi.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I dont think bluffing into a TAG on a four flush board when said TAG hasnt once missed a raise the entire hand is going to be very profitable in the short run, middle run, long run, or EVER!


AA or KK with the heart here almost everytime.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

I don't think we're winning this one time out of a million, let alone one time out of...12 or whatever it's going to be after the rake.

And I ain't excusing preflop. Calling when you're expecting the TAG knocked out and the weak blinds in is one thing, but calling two more when the guy you don't want is in and loves his hand while the blinds you wanted in have folded? Why?

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

[ QUOTE ]

And I ain't excusing preflop. Calling when you're expecting the TAG knocked out and the weak blinds in is one thing, but calling two more when the guy you don't want is in and loves his hand while the blinds you wanted in have folded? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling the two back was pretty easy. UTG is an over aggressive raiser and I have perfect relative position on the TAG and good position on aggressive UTG with a caller in between.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

As for postflop....Everyone is right.

He never folds here.

TAG thinks for about 4 seconds and calls with black kings.

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

what else?

Re: QTs.......post-flop standard?
 

This play seems really loose / weak to me. UTG Raise with only one caller in between, holding 1 gap suited connector I am folding every time. If I had made the loose call hoping for callers behind me, I am certainly folding to the next two bets.

OK, so now you have the OESD but there are two to the flush on the board (maybe 6 outs if no other flush cards come?) . Is it too weak tight to fold the the turn flush card? I do not like getting trapped between to aggressive players with marginal preflop cards / the second best draw. This play looks horrible to me and I would like to understand where I am wrong? I play FT .25 / .50 which is probably really different than party 2 /4.