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-   -   my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=402834)

silkyslim 12-21-2005 03:05 PM

my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
Do you like this free showdown raise or should i bet for value?? I put him on a high pocket pair or ahand like AQ, AK so i didnt know if i was ahead with this split pair of J's. with the flush draw im like, gotta raise the turn. i can tke a free showdown and it cost the same as calling down, plus i can improve and hit him with another bet to make 3 BB's. Villain is not a tardo but certaintly not good. he is kind of aggressive


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Guruman 12-21-2005 03:07 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
I like this river check. I think the pf action plus the turn donk/call puts a queen in his range a good portion of the time.

I probably raise this flop though. It doesn't seem like a strong enough hand to wait for the turn.

sean c 12-21-2005 03:10 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
Hi slim this really isn't a free showdown raise because you can't fold to a 3-bet here with your flush draw and given the fact that he just called your turn raise i think you can value bet the river.

jba 12-21-2005 03:12 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
yeah I like it on this turn but I think it's only good on a Q/T club. you are not going to fold out a worse hand but you are usually going to get AK to fold there which isn't necessarily a good thing, but the Q/T will make him call the turn for the gutshot so there is extra value here.

no way on the river bet...

12-21-2005 03:50 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
Hi Slim-

Raise the flop. Rest of the hand will play better. By the way, I'd bet this river, except the 6s paired and that's definitely within his hand range. But otherwise, I bet bet bet.

silkyslim 12-21-2005 03:51 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi slim this really isn't a free showdown raise because you can't fold to a 3-bet here with your flush draw and given the fact that he just called your turn raise i think you can value bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
when can you fold to a 3bet ? you are automaticaly gettign 5-1 on the turn when this happens plus the size of the pot before the turn. And if you are going to fold to a 3-bet, then why not bet the river for value if you are just called?? i dont think a free showdown raise is just when you can fold to a 3-bet.

jba 12-21-2005 03:52 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
happydaz -

did you miss the preflop action or are you just not buying it?

silkyslim 12-21-2005 04:38 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi slim this really isn't a free showdown raise because you can't fold to a 3-bet here with your flush draw and given the fact that he just called your turn raise i think you can value bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
when can you fold to a 3bet ? you are automaticaly gettign 5-1 on the turn when this happens plus the size of the pot before the turn. And if you are going to fold to a 3-bet, then why not bet the river for value if you are just called?? i dont think a free showdown raise is just when you can fold to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
plz discuss!

Catt 12-21-2005 04:46 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
A free SD raise is generally a raise in position that is intended to be the last money you put into the pot unless you improve on the river. If it is a true free showdown raise, you are folding to a three bet.

Guruman 12-21-2005 04:49 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
the point is that since you have to call a threebet, you should have just called the turn bet and folded a river donk UI, or raisde the turn and bet the river, read dependant.

As played, I don't like the turn raise, because we're not folding any queens or flush draws, and we don't want to fold out anyone else (worse pairs, worse pp, UI overs, AX, AX paired up, etc).

Again, I would have raised and capped the flop - as this makes money and forces the villain to play straightforwardly against you on the turn.

Guruman 12-21-2005 04:50 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
another line is just calling down with outs, but I don't know if I like that one.

jba 12-21-2005 04:52 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
[ QUOTE ]
A free SD raise is generally a raise in position that is intended to be the last money you put into the pot unless you improve on the river. If it is a true free showdown raise, you are folding to a three bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it is really. a very common example is a weak suited ace that pairs and has a flush draw..

12-21-2005 04:54 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
[ QUOTE ]
happydaz -

did you miss the preflop action or are you just not buying it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi jba-

I have the flu, and I will blame my mental problems on it all day long. I guess raising this flop after a cap is pretty silly. Now, I'm always a big fan of putting more money in on the turn when I pick up a pretty draw, but this may be wrong betcause getting 3-bet sucks and we have to call. Would you rather call/call/ raise river?

jba 12-21-2005 04:57 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
happydaz -

did you miss the preflop action or are you just not buying it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi jba-

I have the flu, and I will blame my mental problems on it all day long. I guess raising this flop after a cap is pretty silly. Now, I'm always a big fan of putting more money in on the turn when I pick up a pretty draw, but this may be wrong betcause getting 3-bet sucks and we have to call. Would you rather call/call/ raise river?

[/ QUOTE ]

ha no problem. I just realized that my post sounded a bit snarky which isn't what I intended -- it was a genuine question.

I like the turn raise on this very specific turn, see my first post...

Catt 12-21-2005 10:06 PM

Re: my first sssh post!!!! did i get the acronym wrong?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A free SD raise is generally a raise in position that is intended to be the last money you put into the pot unless you improve on the river. If it is a true free showdown raise, you are folding to a three bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it is really. a very common example is a weak suited ace that pairs and has a flush draw..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd categorize that as a traditional semi-bluff - we probably don't have the best hand but lots of outs to the best hand, and we'd be happy to have opponent fold immediately. It's a bit of semantics, though, since even my use of the term is a form of semi-bluff. I think most people on these boards refer to raising with what may be a second-best hand but with lots of outs to improve as a "semi-bluff" and raising with what may be a second-best hand that has few outs to improve as a "free showdown" raise -- the principle difference being that in the former you're calling a three-bet and in the latter you are probably not. You ideally want to make both plays when you think the chance of getting three-bet is small, but in the latter a three-bet tends to ruin your play while in the former it elicits a grumble. If you're raising a nut flush draw with a a medium pair (one that you have ample reason to believe is second best), you better be doing so only if (1) there's a decent chance Villain folds to the raise, and (2) there's a very small chance Villain three-bets, and (3) there's a small chance that Villain stop n goes the river.


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