Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Well, guys, this thread is about as definitive as they come with respect to our favorite subject: the decision of calling or folding for one more bet on the river. Ed Miller chimes in, and his post about what his comments about folding for a single bet were written for make this a classic even by themselve. Cartman also posted some pure gold, as did Krishan and and a number of others.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

[censored], there's more good stuff on favorite topics. Here's WA/WB dissected. Hint: if your opponents will still call down with all pairs, or even peel with trash, when you c/r the flop with your A5 catching top pair, c/c c/c bet isn't going to win you the most money.

Edit: Heh, forgot the link.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] you.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

To add: Peter Harris is doing a spectacular job with the digest over in SSSH. He's essentially digesting both SSSH and MHSH, and it's all very clearly layed out. I'd strongly recommend you guys check that out every Wednesday (or so) to glean the wisdom of a couple more forums. He didn't post the key to what all the symbols mean this week, but [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = hand post, [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] = theoretical discussion, [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] = HU.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

very good stuff in this one, I will have to check out the wa/wb post.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

I was looking for this post. I could have sworn I read read it in High Stakes Limit. No wonder I couldn't find it.

Cartman's post was gold.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

I've been reviewing hands, and doing some hard thinking about how much I'm paying off players, especially the standard "unimaginative" micro and small stakes players. It was working up into a really good post. But not as good as this thread. Dammit.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Is there any way to isolate information like this in Poker Tracker?

In other words, I'd to like to know how I am doing when I call river bets, call river raises, etc...

Are there any generally accepted stats related to the river action that I can spot check against my own?

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Good to see Miller finally confirmed (in his own way) what I've been preaching for months:
You guys call down too much.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Have to admit I didnt understand much of it but it is certainly a part of my game I want to improve.

only way I can learn is through examples, this river a fold?

CO was a total fish, Havent seen BB do anything crazy.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (15.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero ?

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Why did you raise the turn after he 3-bet you on the flop? I think you should have called down instead.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise the turn after he 3-bet you on the flop? I think you should have called down instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your probably right.
During the hand I wasnt prepared to give him credit for a big hand yet as he could put me on a steal and be raising with any piece of the board to try and get me to fold and be heads up against the fish.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Since the fish was in the hand, I think putting him on a steal is faulty thinking. I dunno, depends on your reads.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

Nice to see Miller give a little more insight into what has lately been paraphrased as "NEVER FOLD ON RIVER" especially after someone mentiones folding AA for one bet on the river.

Re: Mandatory reading from MHSH about paying off on the river
 

You should definitely not raise this turn. Raising only puts you in a position to fold the fish who is likely drawing thin and may even call the river bet from BB which you can raise if you improve. As this went down a river fold is pretty safe.