Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

Just wondering what a "good, solid" player would be making on the $2/4 limit tables online?

When I say good I mean has a solid understanding and implimentation of the basics- starting hand slection, pot/implied odds, good post-flop play, etc.

(BTW I'm not at the above stage yet- hence me being interested in a typical BB/hr rate for someone has has the fundamentals down.

Would 2BB/hr be unrealistic? Is it likely to be more or less.

I know "it depends...." but if 0.0002BB/hr is too low and 50,0000BB/hr is too high- what are typical values???

Many thanks,
Ian

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

If your beating any online limit game for 2.0bb/100 your doing just fine.

Anything above that, and I question why your not moving up.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

Win rates for online poker are usually stated per 100 hands rather than per hour.

2BB/100 is definatly realistic at 2/4 full but I'd bet money that most players who consider themselves 'good' couldn't do it...

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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but I'd bet money that most players who consider themselves 'good' couldn't do it...

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Agreed. That's why I'm trying to remove the "subjectivity" from the question. What could someone who "is" good (rather than "thinks" they are) expect to get?

Sounds like 2BB/100 would be typical?

Many thanks,
Ian

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

I also think that most people can never get that good nomatter how much they practice and how much they study.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

Do you mean in 2/4 or limit in general?

I also think that most people can never get that good nomatter how much they practice and how much they study.

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I dont know. I think anybody who applies themselves can grind out 3BB/100. IMO anyway

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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If your beating any online limit game for 2.0bb/100 your doing just fine. Anything above that, and I question why your not moving up.

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Bankroll?

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

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lol 3bb/100 at 2/4 doesn't even make you a "good" player, let alone a "great" one.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

So it looks like 2-3BB/100 is in the right ball park?

Cheers,
Ian

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

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lol 3bb/100 at 2/4 doesn't even make you a "good" player, let alone a "great" one.

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I don't think they meant a "great overall" player, but great relative to the limit.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

anybody could make 3bb/100 over 10k hands...can you do it over 75k or 100k though.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

I think the question is so different to answer since "good" player is so relative. I assume I would beat 2/4 with 4-5BB/100 if I would be playing it now, yet I would be crushed at a table consisting of the best 2+2'ers, so I am not that good anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Still a player who beats 2/4 with 2BB/100 is good IMO, since understanding poker is necessary to do that.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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If your beating any online limit game for 2.0bb/100 your doing just fine. Anything above that, and I question why your not moving up.

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Bankroll?

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Unless you're spending every penny of your profit, the answer usually isn't bankroll. However, risk Vs. reward is often a very good answer.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

3BB+/100 is totally possible online at lower stakes over huge sample sizes (100K+) - it takes allot of discipline though and I am not convinced you could make over 3BB if you are playing more than a couple tables (maybe this is just me though, I play 5/10 - 10/20 (all 6 max) and have found I can maintain 2.5+ bb/100 if I am playing 1-2 tables, more than that and my win rate suffers - however it could just be me and slow brain not being able to apply reads to multiple tables).....AF

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

No one who is a great player will ever play enough 2/4 hands to be especially sure of his long term win rate. It also varies alot with the rake, you can probably make 0.5-0.75BB/100 more on Stars than on PokerRoom due to the difference in rake alone.

If you're grinding your way up the limits here is the rule of thumb I use: At the end of the month I withdraw half my winnings and all my rakeback and bonus money. This has so far let me climb the limits about as fast as my poker skill has grown.*

*) A month is 60,000 hands long for me.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

it sounds like youre asking if youd be able to beat 2/4 for upwards of 2BB/100 with your knowledge of the game. from an honest perspective from how you sound i dont find it likely. a very good player who could beat much higher games might make 3BB/100. its hard to say. rake is a huge element at this level.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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Just wondering what a "good, solid" player would be making on the $2/4 limit tables online?

When I say good I mean has a solid understanding and implimentation of the basics- starting hand slection, pot/implied odds, good post-flop play, etc.

(BTW I'm not at the above stage yet- hence me being interested in a typical BB/hr rate for someone has has the fundamentals down.

Would 2BB/hr be unrealistic? Is it likely to be more or less.

I know "it depends...." but if 0.0002BB/hr is too low and 50,0000BB/hr is too high- what are typical values???

Many thanks,
Ian

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4BB/100 if clearing bonus at same time which at 2-4 only makes sense

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

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lol 3bb/100 at 2/4 doesn't even make you a "good" player, let alone a "great" one.

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I'm not sure what is it that you are implying, Equal. I'd be surprised if you could find very many limit players who are maintaining a winrate of 3BB/100 (even at 2/4) over any sustained period of time.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

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lol 3bb/100 at 2/4 doesn't even make you a "good" player, let alone a "great" one.

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I'm not sure what is it that you are implying, Equal. I'd be surprised if you could find very many limit players who are maintaining a winrate of 3BB/100 (even at 2/4) over any sustained period of time.

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Late last year and 1st part of this year my w/r at 2/4 was hovering around 3/100. It's now slipped to 2.25/100. Ofcourse the more hands I get, the closer I may be getting to my true w/r. But the 2/4 games are noticeably different now.

Thats not to say they are "tough" but they are tighter. 2 years ago when I was beating the .50/1 for 4/100, I MIGHT have been able to get close to that at 2/4 at THAT time.

I guess the point of this ramble is, I think some players who made their way through the micro's and low limit 2-3 years ago, have a warped sense of what 2/4 is actually like now.

Still very beatable and profitable. But as opposed to having 2-3 players calling you down with hopeless hands, now it might be 1 every now again. That has a big impact on the 2/100 - 3 or 4/100 w/r.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

Years ago when I first started playing my rate at live $2/4 was a few pennies short of 3bb/hr for a significant period of time. I played about 2000 hours of $2/4 before I started moving up.

When online poker came about I did a little better than 3bb/100 playing one game at a time.

I just took a look at this years PT database. I have 47,000 hands of $2/4; winning 1.99 bb/100. Nearly all of those hands are on the Party jackpot tables, playing mostly two or three and sometimes four games at a time. That figure does not include $7900 won by being seated at two games that hit jackpots.

As for being "good", I'll say that I consider myself a $10/20 player. I haven't played much above that level because I ... well ... I kind of like not having to dance around several players in the game who might be quite a bit better than I am. To me, $10/20 is still fun; $20/40, while I have no doubt I could make a little more money, is more stressful than I like.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think some players who made their way through the micro's and low limit 2-3 years ago, have a warped sense of what 2/4 is actually like now.



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Nice post.

My winrate at 1/2 was 3.4BB/100 over a 60k hand sample. I had moved down from 2/4 in september. I moved up to 2/4 again this month and over 40k hands my winrate is about .8bb/100. OUCH. bad month. However I think most good players should look to be making 1.5 to 2.5BB/100 over a 100k sample.
I'm sure the percentage of players who make over 2.5BB/100 is very small. I am refering to winrates at PP btw. The ability to 10 table has significantly reduced the ease of games at the lower stakes. In the summer, when I was playing 2/4, my winrate was probably around 3bb/100. However I did not have PT then.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

there is one poster on this board who 8 tables 2/4 for somewhere between 3-4bb/100. he says he has well over 100k hands at that winrate.

one of my housemates 8 tabled 2/4 this fall for a ridiculous winrate over somewhere around 25k hands. although 25k hands is nothing, he is very confident that with good table selecction and decent play its entirely possible to maintain a winrate around 2-2.5bb/100 (on the low side). keep in mind also that someone who 8 tables cannot concentrate nearly as much as a 4 tabler, so i would expect both my housemate and the other 2p2er would have better stats if they played less tables.

stealthcow-

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

I know quite a few solid 2/4 grindiers. Including myself back in the day. Long term, over 100K hands, we all ended up with 1.5-2bb/100.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

I've played 172,803 $2-4 LHE Full hands at various rooms for 3.15bb/100. This was mostly in 2003/2004. I moved up to $3-6 LHE Full and ran at 2.29bb/100 over my first 142K ...in my last 39K hands of $3-6 Full I've run horrificly @1.20bb/100. Just to show you how random even 100K/150K samples are..I also ran poorly at $5-10 LHE Full @~1.00bb/100 which in the long run was all for the best becuase it forced me to focus on my best games short NLHE and short LHE. I cant play full tables any more unless the games are great..

You pay considerably less rake in $2-4 and the games are looser. In 2003/04 I think 3.00/3.50 was sustainable now I think 2.25-2.75 is more realistic.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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there is one poster on this board who 8 tables 2/4 for somewhere between 3-4bb/100. he says he has well over 100k hands at that winrate.

one of my housemates 8 tabled 2/4 this fall for a ridiculous winrate over somewhere around 25k hands. although 25k hands is nothing, he is very confident that with good table selecction and decent play its entirely possible to maintain a winrate around 2-2.5bb/100 (on the low side). keep in mind also that someone who 8 tables cannot concentrate nearly as much as a 4 tabler, so i would expect both my housemate and the other 2p2er would have better stats if they played less tables.

stealthcow-

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If you are making 3-4BB/100 at 2/4 why the hell would you ever play 100k hands at that level? I only played 30k hands at 2/4 where I was at 1.8BB/100 before I moved up. Rake is a serious factor at these levels.

I think winrate is very much overvalued, and that people seem to incorrectly think you need to reach a certain winrate before moving up. I've played 250k hands combined of .5/1 to my current 15/30 and I have never beat any limit for much more than 2BB/100.

Say your winrate is 2BB/100 after bonuses/rakeback. You 4-table and put in 250 hands/hour. This would put your hourly income at around $20.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

I'm at 1.33 BB/100 at 2/4 for 30K hands and 1.53 BB/100 at 3/6 for 17K hands. Definitely room for improvement compared to others on this board, but I'm satisfied since all hands were played with some kind of bonus or rakeback incentive.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think some players who made their way through the micro's and low limit 2-3 years ago, have a warped sense of what 2/4 is actually like now.



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Nice post.

My winrate at 1/2 was 3.4BB/100 over a 60k hand sample. I had moved down from 2/4 in september. I moved up to 2/4 again this month and over 40k hands my winrate is about .8bb/100. OUCH. bad month. However I think most good players should look to be making 1.5 to 2.5BB/100 over a 100k sample.
I'm sure the percentage of players who make over 2.5BB/100 is very small. I am refering to winrates at PP btw. The ability to 10 table has significantly reduced the ease of games at the lower stakes. In the summer, when I was playing 2/4, my winrate was probably around 3bb/100. However I did not have PT then.

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I've got to agree with this. I've been playing in the 2/4 games for about a year now and they aren't as soft as they were. When I first moved up a year ago from 1/2 full I actually found the 2/4 games softer(fewer bonus whores multitabling). I don't think that's the case any longer.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think some players who made their way through the micro's and low limit 2-3 years ago, have a warped sense of what 2/4 is actually like now.



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Nice post.

My winrate at 1/2 was 3.4BB/100 over a 60k hand sample. I had moved down from 2/4 in september. I moved up to 2/4 again this month and over 40k hands my winrate is about .8bb/100. OUCH. bad month. However I think most good players should look to be making 1.5 to 2.5BB/100 over a 100k sample.
I'm sure the percentage of players who make over 2.5BB/100 is very small. I am refering to winrates at PP btw. The ability to 10 table has significantly reduced the ease of games at the lower stakes. In the summer, when I was playing 2/4, my winrate was probably around 3bb/100. However I did not have PT then.

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I've got to agree with this. I've been playing in the 2/4 games for about a year now and they aren't as soft as they were. When I first moved up a year ago from 1/2 full I actually found the 2/4 games softer(fewer bonus whores multitabling). I don't think that's the case any longer.

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I have played quite a bit at both levels (40K each or so) and switch back and forth regularly. I am of the opinion that 1/2 full is tougher than 2/4 full - the 6max games make all the difference to the players playing 1/2 full (or 9max). I am running a 2BB/100 at 1/2 and 3.5/100 at 2/4 (four tabling both), though both aren't quite the sample size I'd like to hang my hat on.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

I also think that most people can never get that good nomatter how much they practice and how much they study.

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nh

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

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I think a truely great player could probably make 3bb/100.

Do you mean in 2/4 or limit in general?

I also think that most people can never get that good nomatter how much they practice and how much they study.

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I dont know. I think anybody who applies themselves can grind out 3BB/100. IMO anyway

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I doubt it...games have gotten too tight for that IMO. I've got a few thousand hours of live play now and I have estimated a winrate of 3.5BB/100 based win rate and hands per hour. This is mostly at 10/20. I just don't think its sustainable even at the 2/4 level. IMO, there is a huge drop-off in BB/100 from 1/2 to 2/4...bigger than any middle limit drop.

Re: Averge BB/hr rate for a \"good\" player- $2/4 limit games???
 

2/4 is still pretty easy. I wasnt around "back in the day" but i crush it now pretty easily. I 10 table jackpot tables and have run at 2.81 over 100k. Nothing huge and I didnt feel I have run that hot. Just play good and take advantage of people doing ridiculous things.