Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

Party $30/$60 9-handed.

My only experience with the villian in this hand is from playing shorthanded with him, he was an aggressive and fairly tough player.

Villian open raises UTG+1, folded to me in the BB w/ QQ. I 3-bet, he calls.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, he calls.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Your plan....?

a) If you hold the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

b) Without the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Results later.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

Check, call if he bets. Lead the river either way and fold to a raise.

I think I would take the same line regardless of holding the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and regardless of whether it came on the river.

- Jim

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lead the river either way

[/ QUOTE ]

There is virtually no hand that he calls with on the river that you beat.

I think it's check/call check/call, but there isn't any particularly good line in this spot.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

Hmm, tough one. Ace is certainly the most common holding for villian here. Most other possibilities would have raised the flop (like 88).

With the club I like check calling the turn for sure. If he has 88-1010 there is good chance he was folding anyway and has only 2 outs, and if you are behind you are paying 2BB to see the river if you lead with a bet.

Without the club is trickier. I thikn MOST players will raise here if they got it and fold if they dont, so bet/fold would be OK. But a really aggressive tricky opponent may see that ace as a good bluff card rather than a card that killed his hand. Also, villian can easily fold to a 3bet. So if you are the villian and you have 1010 here do you raise the turn? I'm not really sure. One thing is for sure, I would not be putting in more than 2BB for the rest of the hand. So if you lead, get rasied and call, I think you can definitely fold if he bets the river. I dont know......

I think I am leaning toward a bet/fold if you dont have teh club, sigh.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

I think we can rule out KK as very unlikely for his holding given the flop action. So the A either made his hand, he has a J or he has a lesser pair or the flush - those are the hands that will give us action.

If we're raised on the river, we have an easy fold, so we're only putting in one bet. A bet we're going to call at any rate. Most of the hands we lose to so the question in my mind is what line will elicit the most action from a lesser pair.

If you bet the river, you're line looks flat out bizaar and might elicit calls from such hands.

- Jim

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

a) Bet and call a raise.

b) Bet and fold to a raise. The ace looks just as scary to him as to you. I don't like to automatically freeze up just because an overcard hits. With the two jacks out there and the clubs, he'll let you know if the ace hit him.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

I say def check the turn cause I really doubt you have worse hands calling you down from here and if he's got a decent club he's liable to semi-bluff raise if you bet and he'll probably take a stab anyway if you don't. From there, I'd check-call the river if the 4th club misses and bet-call if it hits and I have it, check-fold if I don't.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, tough one. Ace is certainly the most common holding for villian here. Most other possibilities would have raised the flop (like 88).

With the club I like check calling the turn for sure. If he has 88-1010 there is good chance he was folding anyway and has only 2 outs, and if you are behind you are paying 2BB to see the river if you lead with a bet.

Without the club is trickier. I thikn MOST players will raise here if they got it and fold if they dont, so bet/fold would be OK. But a really aggressive tricky opponent may see that ace as a good bluff card rather than a card that killed his hand. Also, villian can easily fold to a 3bet. So if you are the villian and you have 1010 here do you raise the turn? I'm not really sure. One thing is for sure, I would not be putting in more than 2BB for the rest of the hand. So if you lead, get rasied and call, I think you can definitely fold if he bets the river. I dont know......

I think I am leaning toward a bet/fold if you dont have teh club, sigh.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good thoughts here, I agree with a lot of this.

Results
 

Felt like I messed this one up bad.

I held Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],

The turn was definitely a scary card for my hand, and I really wanted to showdown against this guy but not get popped when the ace hit, so...

I checked, he checked

River: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I checked, he bet, I called and hated it.

I lost to K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

He peeled that flop with KTo no club!?

Anyway, I think leading the turn would have been the play, although it's a tough spot if you get raised, probably a fold against most players as other posters have suggested.

Holding the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I like a check/call line on the turn since you need to see the river, and would rather not pay two bets, plus there is a lot less risk in giving a free card.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lost to K T .

[/ QUOTE ]

Well at least you don't have to view him as an aggressive tough player.

SGS

Re: Results
 

I think that you played it ok. Don't worry about being sucked out on, it just won't happen that much. You want to see the river, and you are going to be frequently checkraised on this turn. Just check the turn. On the river, I think that you are beating enough hands to justify a call. I see plenty of mid pairs and bluffs on these rivers to justify a call.