10/20 TT
 

I had not fired up PokerAce yet, but my notes and memory told me that this villain had TAG preflop stats.

Too thin to bet this river?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: I am Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">I 3-bet</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, MP2 calls.

River: (6.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks

Re: 10/20 TT
 

Bet. It's really unlikely he's been calling along with a king, he's most likely got a smaller pocket pair.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

I'd bet. It def looks like this guy has a pair, with a small chance he's got a strangely played ace. You can discount pairs higher than yours since he'll often cap those preflop, so his range is weighted more toward those smaller pairs.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

bet. he has 99 or 88.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

Bet.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
Too thin to bet this river?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would characterize it more as a valuebluff.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Too thin to bet this river?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would characterize it more as a valuebluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds about right.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Too thin to bet this river?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would characterize it more as a valuebluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, I think it's straight up value. He folds KQ the vast majority of the time on flop/turn, doesn't have JJ very often at all, and calls with 88-99 a lot.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

every time i read one of your hands, i end up thinking that you shouldve bet or raised instead of called or folded (not trying to be a dick, just an honest observation). I like a bet here as well, you would've heard from an A and theres no chance he folds 66-99.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
every time i read one of your hands, i end up thinking that you shouldve bet or raised instead of called or folded (not trying to be a dick, just an honest observation). I like a bet here as well, you would've heard from an A and theres no chance he folds 66-99.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fear not, I bet this one.

I know the 37s hand seems a little stragne, but do you have some examples? Thank you. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: 10/20 TT
 

I guess I must be thrown off by you indicating he's a decent player...at least preflop...b/c I can't see a decent player check/calling down a pf 3-bet on an AAxxK board with 88/99. So I think it sucks for you if he calls or he sucks if it doesn't suck for you after he calls. Either way I need sleep now.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I must be thrown off by you indicating he's a decent player...at least preflop...b/c I can't see a decent player check/calling down a pf 3-bet on an AAxxK board with 88/99. So I think it sucks for you if he calls or he sucks if it doesn't suck for you after he calls. Either way I need sleep now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering about this too. I don't know how 10/20 unknowns who have TAG preflop stats play, but for Villain to call down with 88/99 in this hand just seems bad to me.

So, if we had a read that Villain was a good player, would we still want to bet? Or does the way he played the hand up till now just suggest too strongly that he has 88/99 and is not good?

Re: 10/20 TT
 

i like a call preflop in the QTs SB hand and of course a reraise in the 37s hand on the turn

Re: 10/20 TT
 

bet. I can't think of a hand that beats u that he would play this way.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

If you had 88/99/JJ here, how would you play it out of position?

- Jim

Re: 10/20 TT
 

looks like he is playing WA/WB. I check behind. I think most of the time when you are called you'll see a bigger pp or AQ or AJ.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you had 88/99/JJ here, how would you play it out of position?

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold on the river since you cannot beat anything anymore that 3-bet preflop. Maybe....call with JJ. So, if you are called, you are beat. Don't bet this river.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
i like a call preflop in the QTs SB hand and of course a reraise in the 37s hand on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I called preflop in the QTs SB hand.

Re: 10/20 TT
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you had 88/99/JJ here, how would you play it out of position?

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have folded 88 and 99 prior to the river, figuring that all I beat is 77 (or 77 and 88).

I know my open-raise was sort of a semi-steal, but I'm not used to facing re-steals from TAGs with hands like KQo and T9s when I open from MP2. It's kind of infrequent, at 5/10. Maybe it happens more often at 10/20. I don't know.

Against me, the advantage of Hero's river bet is that it might finally convince me to fold JJ. (If I hadn't capped with JJ preflop, I probably would have played it the way Villain did so far.) TT-77 is 24 combos though, AK/AQ/KK just dropped from 22 combos to 17 combos, and I'd be getting about 7:1, so I don't know.

I guess part of my difficulty (as far as fully understanding the river bet goes) is that, OOP versus preflop 3-bettors, I do a lot of check-calling postflop with good hands that may or may not be beaten. Place me in Villain's shoes, and Hero is bluffing on the river.

But, then, Villain isn't me.