River bluff against BBuddy
 

I have probably very tight image. MP2 is BBuddy.
I have two question about the hand (or other comment of course are welcome) what about turn push ? I am afraid he may be calling it with any A.
What about my river bluff ? Love it ? Hate it ? Standard ?
I hope to pushh him of any draw here and any A hand (good , bad ?)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($2010)
BB ($10669)
UTG ($2911.80)
UTG+1 ($1570.50)
Hero ($3038)
MP2 ($2287)
MP3 ($7787.55)
CO ($1967)
Button ($8597.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $70</font>, MP2 calls $70, MP3 calls $70, CO calls $70, Button calls $70, SB calls $60, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($440) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $300</font>, MP2 calls $300, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($1040) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: ($1040) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $700</font>

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Would you value bet AK like this here, I think it'd be a good value bet with AK, but I don't see a lot of people doing it. I'm not even sure why you bet this flop into that many opponents. I'd either just open push the flop or c/r the flop allin.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

I see a c/r but what are the positives of open-pushing this flop? We would be betting 2900 into a 400 ish pot, safe to assume were only called by a set which is the one hand we don't want to see. We fold off all other hands I think.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Given your image your river bet should push him off his ace except for AK. Seems like a good bet.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd either just open push the flop or c/r the flop allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Open push? Are you serious when you say [censored] like this?

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you value bet AK like this here, I think it'd be a good value bet with AK, but I don't see a lot of people doing it. I'm not even sure why you bet this flop into that many opponents. I'd either just open push the flop or c/r the flop allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you are serious here, but open pushing the flop for 3k in a 440 pot is pretty retarded. Just so you know.
-James

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Foxwood and James, if you were kind enough to take some time for reading that post what about your suggestions/comments of my play here ?

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Punter,

It very much depends on the pace of the game. But I don't think you're getting Buddy off any piece of that board, as you need Buddy to be making a decision for a LOT of money to get him to lay down a hand. Especially the turn check indicating you're not huge, I could see him going "it's just 700 bucks, I have AJ...call"

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
Punter,

It very much depends on the pace of the game. But I don't think you're getting Buddy off any piece of that board, as you need Buddy to be making a decision for a LOT of money to get him to lay down a hand. Especially the turn check indicating you're not huge, I could see him going "it's just 700 bucks, I have AJ...call"

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your river bet is more likely to get him to raise a bluff than fold an ace. I think you need to bet more to make him fold a "made" hand unless he has a specific read on you that you are weak tight.
-James

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you value bet AK like this here, I think it'd be a good value bet with AK, but I don't see a lot of people doing it. I'm not even sure why you bet this flop into that many opponents. I'd either just open push the flop or c/r the flop allin.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know you are serious here, but open pushing the flop for 3k in a 440 pot is pretty retarded. Just so you know.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't notice the stack sizes, but I don't think it's a bad play (with 100 bb at least). Your 50/50 vs AQ so whatever, AAA isn't too likely, so only hands to worry about is QQQ and 999.....assuming he has the set WITH one of your hearts, you're still 41% to win the pot. I really doubt AK looks you up to an open push. Anyone that says this play is retarded please come sit at my table and good luck making marginal calls vs me when I open push the goods assholes.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you value bet AK like this here, I think it'd be a good value bet with AK, but I don't see a lot of people doing it. I'm not even sure why you bet this flop into that many opponents. I'd either just open push the flop or c/r the flop allin.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know you are serious here, but open pushing the flop for 3k in a 440 pot is pretty retarded. Just so you know.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't notice the stack sizes, but I don't think it's a bad play (with 100 bb at least). Your 50/50 vs AQ so whatever, AAA isn't too likely, so only hands to worry about is QQQ and 999.....assuming he has the set WITH one of your hearts, you're still 41% to win the pot. I really doubt AK looks you up to an open push. Anyone that says this play is retarded please come sit at my table and good luck making marginal calls vs me when I open push the goods assholes.

[/ QUOTE ]

been there, done that.

maybe it works against other people though.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you value bet AK like this here, I think it'd be a good value bet with AK, but I don't see a lot of people doing it. I'm not even sure why you bet this flop into that many opponents. I'd either just open push the flop or c/r the flop allin.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know you are serious here, but open pushing the flop for 3k in a 440 pot is pretty retarded. Just so you know.
-James

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't notice the stack sizes, but I don't think it's a bad play (with 100 bb at least). Your 50/50 vs AQ so whatever, AAA isn't too likely, so only hands to worry about is QQQ and 999.....assuming he has the set WITH one of your hearts, you're still 41% to win the pot. I really doubt AK looks you up to an open push. Anyone that says this play is retarded please come sit at my table and good luck making marginal calls vs me when I open push the goods assholes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's just pointless. You can bet the pot/follow the turn and win the pot against marginal aces and things just as easily. You don't need to go all in to make people fold, and you don't hate it if the action goes bet, someone raise, you push. I've seen your open push routine and am thoroughly unimpressed by it. You need to take pot size into account, and evaluate the risk/reward scenarios of pushing 3k into 400 or making regular sized bets and playing poker afterwards.
-James

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

fsu, Zeebo:

Sounds like you guys need a HU grudge match.

edited to add: james, too!

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Yes he is very serious I have first hand experience.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

I like to give up this river. Unless you are a very tough player and buddy knows it, you are likely not value betting just an ace here, and you are also likely not holding just a queen. I think if I'm bbuddy with an ace, I'm thinking that if I call you will either show me AQ or a missed draw, because its just not that likely that you'd lead the flop into that many people with a queen, and its also unlikely you'd be value betting an ace. A better line is to pot the turn, that will put him in a very tricky spot, assuming he didnt flop huge.

-Jason

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

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Unless you are a very tough player and buddy knows it

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He probably sees my as nutpeddler if that help [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Unless you are a very tough player and buddy knows it

[/ QUOTE ]

He probably sees my as nutpeddler if that help [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He is more likely to see you as unknown than a nutpeddler if you haven't gotten into any big confrontations with him. He plays so many tables that I suspect this is the case.
-James

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Strassa is on the right track when he says the fold equity is on the turn. His line would be a lot better, however, if the stacks were deeper. Here, there is no threat of a pot-sized river bet.

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

oops

zeebo
 

i much prefer c/r allin in this spot w/ either AAA or JhTh

Re: River bluff against BBuddy
 

Pushing buddy off an ace....lol
hes folding the j10....and probably not much else

RESULTS
 

He folded after some "thought" (maybe switching tables).
Thank you all for answers and ideas (gotta try open pushing next time [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])