AA no reads
 

Third hand at the table, no reads at all. Comments on all streets please, thank you.


No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (5 handed) converter

MP ($19.10)
Hero ($25.40)
SB ($13.45)
BB ($51.15)
UTG ($22.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.35</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.10, UTG calls $1.10, MP calls $1.10.

Flop: ($5.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5.50</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, MP is all-in HERO ?

Re: AA no reads
 

Raise a little more preflop. 3-4bb plus 1 for each limper is my standard. Flop bet is fine. I'm calling and if he has a set I'm reloading.

Re: AA no reads
 

So, it's a standard call here ? I was not sure

Re: AA no reads
 

you gotta call. flush draw is way to likely to fold.

Re: AA no reads
 

fold.

Re: AA no reads
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two-pair or a set?

Re: AA no reads
 

Ok, so I would probably not fold this cuz I never fold aces basically, but if you are ever going to fold aces, now is the time. My thinking is that MP limped after multiple limpers so unless he's that rare guy who never ever raises PF we can rule out QQ or KK. Also if he's willing to play TT/JJ this hard on this flop he'd likely raise those too, so I just doubt we see those too often. 89 is also a very common hand. Then there is the fact that most people at this level never ever check raise, and the fact that it's so easy to have a pair + flush draw or a gut/oesd + flush draw on this board. We're really not in good shape.

Re: AA no reads
 

I want to cry because this is a hard decision. Flush draw, straight draw, two pair, set, A9 for top pair with top kicker. Could also have TT, JJ, QQ, KK. *sigh*

I push. I've folded AA and KK each once when someone flat called, then the turn completed a possible straight AND flush (in this case a Ts would be horrible - something like that). But since we're on the flop, I'm pushing and hope he donked it and went all-in on a draw.

Also I've been in this particular situation as well, and it ended up villain was actually all-in with two overcards and a flush draw. So this is also very very likely (something like QKs).

Re: AA no reads
 

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Ok, so I would probably not fold this cuz I never fold aces

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I'm with you. I cannot bring myself to lay them down on this dry of a board. I agree that OP should fold, but I know that I cannot fold in this situation.

Re: AA no reads
 

It's tough without a read because he could easily have a set (limp, call a less than 10% stack raise) and you're in bad shape.

Given that his stack is fairly small (ie approx 12 more into a 12 pot) you're getting great odds against just a flush draw which is a likely hodling. I often see sets c/r min not c/r all in, as they want a call more than the flush draw does. If you're both more like 200 BB stacks I think people would be more willing to lay this down.

Re: AA no reads
 

Insta call and see flush draw and/or JT. You're going without a read here, which means you default to a "standard play read" on 25NL. People with a PP miniraise at this level.

You get stacked, you get stacked. A set probably would have just flat called - slowplaying sets is another default at this level.

Re: AA no reads
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, it's a standard call here ? I was not sure

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's standard unless the stacks are extremely deep. Most of us make that call and lose our stacks no matter what we say on this forum.

Re: AA no reads
 

Odds are too good to do otherwise.Especially in a cash game. The worst that happens is you reload.There are only 2 out of the many possibilities with this flop that have you in trouble, that is not enough to fold on.

Re: AA no reads
 

KK,QQ,JJ are not an option, due to Villian's preflop behaviour.

TT is not an option, because Villian saw OP raise preflop and continuation bet into a large field, meaning there is a very good chance that TT will not stand up. The average $25NL player is under-aggressive, not over-aggressive.

The average $25NL player is there for a reason. Their postflop play is not very good. You'll see tons of guys call allin's on the flop with a flush or straight draw, but not make the allin.

Personally, I think the guys that have posted so far have given the standard $25NL player too much credit. They tend to be overly loose, yes. But they also tend to be overly passive. To check raise allin with a flush or straight draw shows A) an understanding of the real odds of making his draw and B) fold equity. This is a level of play your standard $25 NL player simply does not have.

So your average $25 player is a passive one, meaning he's only going to be playing like this with a made hand. (Sets, 98s) The only draw the average passive $25 player would consider this play on is J10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case you're not looking good either way.

I fold.

Opinions on this logic? (agree or disagree?)

Re: AA no reads
 

[ QUOTE ]
KK,QQ,JJ are not an option, due to Villian's preflop behaviour.

TT is not an option, because Villian saw OP raise preflop and continuation bet into a large field, meaning there is a very good chance that TT will not stand up. The average $25NL player is under-aggressive, not over-aggressive.

The average $25NL player is there for a reason. Their postflop play is not very good. You'll see tons of guys call allin's on the flop with a flush or straight draw, but not make the allin.

Personally, I think the guys that have posted so far have given the standard $25NL player too much credit. They tend to be overly loose, yes. But they also tend to be overly passive. To check raise allin with a flush or straight draw shows A) an understanding of the real odds of making his draw and B) fold equity. This is a level of play your standard $25 NL player simply does not have.

So your average $25 player is a passive one, meaning he's only going to be playing like this with a made hand. (Sets, 98s) The only draw the average passive $25 player would consider this play on is J10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case you're not looking good either way.

I fold.

Opinions on this logic? (agree or disagree?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes great sense, but I would agree with the others and say I would still probably call, especially in the 30 seconds or so you have to act.

Re: AA no reads
 

i see TONS of clowns at this level go all in just with top pair. i would call 100% of the time

Re: AA no reads
 

I dont disagree, but at this level I have seen this move more because people think on this flop you just missed with overs and can blow you off your hand with a big CR

Re: AA no reads
 

[ QUOTE ]
KK,QQ,JJ are not an option, due to Villian's preflop behaviour.

TT is not an option, because Villian saw OP raise preflop and continuation bet into a large field, meaning there is a very good chance that TT will not stand up. The average $25NL player is under-aggressive, not over-aggressive.

The average $25NL player is there for a reason. Their postflop play is not very good. You'll see tons of guys call allin's on the flop with a flush or straight draw, but not make the allin.

Personally, I think the guys that have posted so far have given the standard $25NL player too much credit. They tend to be overly loose, yes. But they also tend to be overly passive. To check raise allin with a flush or straight draw shows A) an understanding of the real odds of making his draw and B) fold equity. This is a level of play your standard $25 NL player simply does not have.

So your average $25 player is a passive one, meaning he's only going to be playing like this with a made hand. (Sets, 98s) The only draw the average passive $25 player would consider this play on is J10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case you're not looking good either way.

I fold.

Opinions on this logic? (agree or disagree?)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excellent post. 25NL players are generally very passive, at least in my experience. This only emphasizes why reads are so important. Without reads, I probably fold as well. 25NL players are most often true blue post-flop.

Re: AA no reads
 

My 30 second logic for a $25 NL game.

Any raise of a pre-flop raise and continuation bet is saying "I can beat TPTK". Since he didn't open the betting, there's no KK, QQ, JJ.

Leaving TT, 2 pair, or sets.

I fold.

Re: AA no reads
 

[ QUOTE ]
Third hand at the table, no reads at all. Comments on all streets please, thank you.


No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (5 handed) converter

MP ($19.10)
Hero ($25.40)
SB ($13.45)
BB ($51.15)
UTG ($22.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, MP calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.35</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.10, UTG calls $1.10, MP calls $1.10.

Flop: ($5.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5.50</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, MP is all-in HERO ?

[/ QUOTE ]

PF: $1.5 is my standard open. $.50/limper. $2.5 PF.

Flop: I'm definately calling, too many players someone makes that move with a straight draw or flush draw.

Re: AA no reads
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, it's a standard call here ? I was not sure

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's standard unless the stacks are extremely deep. Most of us make that call and lose our stacks no matter what we say on this forum.

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I voted in favour of calling before hand. Agreed.