PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

villain is a fish.
good read or donkey spew play?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

Looks like a spew to me. I don't expect a fish to fold here.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

Imo this is a complete spew unless you had a way better read than just "fish". It´s very unlikely he is raising the river without a full house and as he is a fish he will never fold a 7.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

What does fish mean ?

Does it just mean loose ?

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

If he's the type to take a lot of hands to the river, I wouldn't try the steal with 64s here to start with. Most fish are likely to call when they should fold, not fold when they should call.

You're going to make oodles off this guy when he calls you down with the worst hand, not when you put a play on him and make him fold a winner.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

[ QUOTE ]
good read or donkey spew play?


[/ QUOTE ]

the latter. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

PREFLOP: You are coming in with the worst hand preflop against an opponent who doesn't like to fold. I really don't think that position + initiative can overcome these defecits.

FLOP/TURN: I do think the flop/turn/first river bet is OK.... once youv'e got into this awful longball situation with a terrible hand, hoping he folds is better than giving up.

RIVER: If he is a fish in the classic sense of the word then this is pretty awful. Even maniacs only rarely bluff check-raise the river, and even then they will call you down with A-high a good proportion of the time.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

if hes the type that can c/r the river on a bluff i prob wouldve checked he turn

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

the whole hand is one extended spew IMO.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

The conditions for this would have to be so specific that there's no way anyone could simply read "spew or no?", browse the HH, and then tell you whether it was correct or not.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

I would check turn. Whatever he called on the flop, he'll probably call again on the turn if not the river and you don't want to get checkraised off your draw.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

For your river bluff to be OK, this guy would have to be fairly aggressive and if he's that aggressive I'd think you're getting check-raised on this turn often enough to make checking better.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would check turn. Whatever he called on the flop, he'll probably call again on the turn if not the river and you don't want to get checkraised off your draw.

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i tota;;y agrre w/ that, but i admit i was paying v little attention and was really tired when this hand was played.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

[ QUOTE ]
Imo this is a complete spew unless you had a way better read than just "fish". It´s very unlikely he is raising the river without a full house and as he is a fish he will never fold a 7.

[/ QUOTE ]
why would he have a 7?

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

I disagree with the turn check. The read given was somewhat lacking, but against a vanilla fish:

1) He showed no aggression on the flop. The turn changes nothing -- it is unlikely he is paired.

2) He's a fish. There's a good chance he is just peeling. Our fold equity rockets on the turn.

3) We have no showdown equity and can't call a river bluff, getting a fold from him would be much better now. A turn check with a gutshot + high card would be much nicer.

4) We have a gutshot and it's an easy fold against most players.

Against 95% of players our fold equity &gt;&gt;&gt; equity of our draw. Unless you missed out some vital information in your read.

Re: PP10. 46s RIVER BLUFF
 

[ QUOTE ]
the whole hand is one extended spew IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

fish and playing 64 in limit don't mix. Believe me I've tried but they'll take their 66 to showdown on a KQTxx board to me position and iniative against fish don't really matter so I fold this one preflop