Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...amp;m_id=65565

opinions on this analysis?

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

Very good article. I think I still have it bookmarked.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

Do you think this applies to cash games though?
If you have 100bb and open raise is 4bb it seems you are risking alot by moving in.

AA and KK are going to call, but can we expect hands that we want to call to call? Especially from a big stack.

The article is about a small stack. But with deep stacks moving in seems like a bad move.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

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The article is about a small stack. But with deep stacks moving in seems like a bad move.

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I agree - you can't push with AK with deep money. I'm inclined to think re-raising is still a good idea, provided that your flop c-bets are getting respect. However, not being able to push changes the maths considerably as you can't guarantee seeing all five cards.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

I've been devaluing AK lately. I don't play it quite as aggressively as I used to. I don't like reraising with it, even from late postion. This is probably bad, but I've folded AK 3 times this week preflop. Once to a raise and min reraise in front of me and twice to a min reraise behind me when I was in MP. In all but one case I was behind a big pocket pair. In the third case the person also had AK and we'd have chopped against a short stack who pushed with 77.

I personally like TJ Cloutiers take on AK being rather weak. He rates it as being below TT and recommends not getting your chips in the middle with it preflop in cash games.

I also enjoyed this article by Daniel Negreanu on the vulnerability of AK

http://fullcontactpoker.com/daniel/strat...&ucat=&

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

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Let’s say the under-the-gun (UTG) player has raised to three times the big blind at a ninehanded no-limit hold’em table.

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Next, let’s assign the UTG player a typical UTG range of hands — pocket pairs of sevens or higher, A-Q, A-K, A-J suited.

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Anyone else not buy this? My range for raises UTG in a nine-handed cash game is a lot tighter than this -- even at small stakes.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

I don't remember seeing anything about pushing 100BB with AK against a 4BB raise. A healthy reraise to 12BB is probably in order, though.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

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I don't remember seeing anything about pushing 100BB with AK against a 4BB raise. A healthy reraise to 12BB is probably in order, though.

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Why would you choose 12BB here? Doesn't a reraise to 12BB price in pocket pairs to try to hit a set?

M

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

Not unless you're planning on losing your stack every time you hit an A or K. Remember, they'll hit the flop a lot less than you'll hit, so you don't even need to hit your AK to get a fold most of the time.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

When they fold or push, it's pretty clear. But when they call, it isn't so clear to me. I guess my question is really what hands do they raise 4BB UTG with that they do not call the 12BB reraise with?

Thanks!
M

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

You're not expecting a fold immediately, you're either 1) getting money in against a hand that you dominate or 2) building fold equity against a pocket pair hand by representing a higher pair.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

OK, what flops and betting action do you love/hate after your 12BB reraise gets called?

M

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

Obviously any A/K flop helps. Flops like Qxx or Jxx are good. What you DONT want to see is a flop like 7 2 3, where a small pocket pair will likely play back at you.

As far as action goes -- I'm usually shutting down if any bet gets called.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been devaluing AK lately. I don't play it quite as aggressively as I used to. I don't like reraising with it, even from late postion. This is probably bad, but I've folded AK 3 times this week preflop. Once to a raise and min reraise in front of me and twice to a min reraise behind me when I was in MP. In all but one case I was behind a big pocket pair. In the third case the person also had AK and we'd have chopped against a short stack who pushed with 77.

I personally like TJ Cloutiers take on AK being rather weak. He rates it as being below TT and recommends not getting your chips in the middle with it preflop in cash games.

I also enjoyed this article by Daniel Negreanu on the vulnerability of AK

http://fullcontactpoker.com/daniel/strat...&ucat=&

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From Negreanu's article - "The important thing to understand about Big Slick is that it's a drawing hand. Now if it's suited, it makes it the most powerful drawing hand you can be dealt in Texas Hold'em. But remember- it's a drawing hand."

That's basically what I always think. You're a dog to 22 preflop. In a cash game, I want to see the flop.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've been devaluing AK lately. I don't play it quite as aggressively as I used to. I don't like reraising with it, even from late postion. This is probably bad, but I've folded AK 3 times this week preflop. Once to a raise and min reraise in front of me and twice to a min reraise behind me when I was in MP. In all but one case I was behind a big pocket pair. In the third case the person also had AK and we'd have chopped against a short stack who pushed with 77.

I personally like TJ Cloutiers take on AK being rather weak. He rates it as being below TT and recommends not getting your chips in the middle with it preflop in cash games.

I also enjoyed this article by Daniel Negreanu on the vulnerability of AK

http://fullcontactpoker.com/daniel/strat...&ucat=&

[/ QUOTE ]

From Negreanu's article - "The important thing to understand about Big Slick is that it's a drawing hand. Now if it's suited, it makes it the most powerful drawing hand you can be dealt in Texas Hold'em. But remember- it's a drawing hand."

That's basically what I always think. You're a dog to 22 preflop. In a cash game, I want to see the flop.

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There is a big difference in how playable the hands are though. Unless it hits a set, 22 can call a bet on the flop just about never. The same is certainly not true of AK.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

OK, so flop is Kxx. Pot is ~$24. He checks, you bet $18 (2/3 pot) and get called. Pot is now $60 and you both have $70 left in front of you. Turn blanks, he checks. What do you do? Do you check behind, guaranteeing a river bet from any two cards? Do you make even a half pot bet on the turn where if you get called, you're facing the river with a $120 pot and $40 in front of you.

I guess I just don't see where the 12BB reraise makes your later decisions any easier, but rather sets you up for some nasty decisions on later streets in big pots with TPTK.

I do appreciate your willingness to discuss this with me. I have a good bit of trouble with this scenario, especially when I'm not playing at 100% of my 'A game'.

M

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

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Obviously any A/K flop helps. Flops like Qxx or Jxx are good. What you DONT want to see is a flop like 7 2 3, where a small pocket pair will likely play back at you.

As far as action goes -- I'm usually shutting down if any bet gets called.

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I think one of my biggest leaks is not laying these hands down when they aren't improved on the flop. I'll CB and then I'll get called; the turn is no help. Usual advice is to shut down and give it up, but I feel like so many pots are stolen. On the other hand, I think I'm wasting a lot of money by continually firing again on the turn.

For those who use a HUD with PT stats, do you find that these stats make a difference in your decision and that you don't find yourself wondering what to do?

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think this applies to cash games though?
If you have 100bb and open raise is 4bb it seems you are risking alot by moving in.

AA and KK are going to call, but can we expect hands that we want to call to call? Especially from a big stack.

The article is about a small stack. But with deep stacks moving in seems like a bad move.

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I asked him about this...here's some of his response (my questions/comments have the ">" marks in front):

Thanks for the email, and the compliment on the book. Sorry I took so long to respond.

>In your example, I have 15 big blinds in front of me,
>so moving in here makes sense. How would you handle
>the same situation if you and your opponent each have
>50 or 100 big blinds in front of you, as is often the
>case in a no-limit cash game?

Good question. Obviously you wouldn't move-in there, as that would be way too big an overbet. I still like to reraise with AK, for two reasons.
1) The more money I get in preflop, the more chance I have of getting to a showdown, hence seeing all five cards. 2) I want to reraise with AA and KK, but I like to just take flops with most other hands I'm going to play.
But I can't ONLY reraise with AA and KK or I'll be too predictable, so I like to add AK to the mix to keep my opponents guessing.

>When the stacks are deep, often I'll just call an
>early raise with AK.

I don't think that's a bad play, and I won't say that I NEVER do that. It's just not my usual style.

>Since we're not likely to get it
>all in pre-flop with that much dough in front of us,
>if the flop misses me, I'm in the same boat whether I
>call or re-raise pre-flop. Two-thirds of the time
>I'll miss, and I'll probably have to lay it down if my
>opponent bets. I don't get to see all 5 cards.

That's assuming your preflop reraise gets called. A big reason to reraise preflop is to put small/medium pairs to a decision. If you're comfortable just calling with AK and then mucking if you miss, then OK. I like to make it a little harder for my opponents to take the pot away from me when I have a hand as strong as AK.


He adds the following at the end of his response:

Small pairs are easier to play with deep stacks. Everything else is harder, especially AK. But I'm willing to take on some of the difficulty and play it aggressively.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

The right answer depends on the opponent, like everything in poker. With short stacks an allin raise is pretty much required. With deep stacks it becomes more important how they will respond and play various flops -

If your opponent is the type that won't fold 88 even if the flop has an A or K, you can just call and hit your A or K and still get paid. Continuation without an A or K is probably wrong.

If your opponent is likely to fold a lot of pairs, the raise is probably right. Continuation on the flop even without an A or K is probably right.

If your opponent's a rock, you might even fold AK (!!) as his raise utg must be AA, KK, QQ or AK, and you have no value against those hands.

etc...

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember seeing anything about pushing 100BB with AK against a 4BB raise. A healthy reraise to 12BB is probably in order, though.

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Why would you choose 12BB here? Doesn't a reraise to 12BB price in pocket pairs to try to hit a set?

M

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Not if you don't get stacked every time with top. You give people implied odds by playing poorly postflop.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

After this size reraise, the pot is large enough that if you hit an A or a K and play it reasonably (i.e. bet 2/3 pot on the flop and get called), you'll wind up with a roughly stack-sized pot no matter what you do and your opponent is almost forced to play the pot the same way with pretty much any decent holding (including a set or decent draw). For my reasoning, see my post above.

If you're going to hit an A/K on the flop and just fold to anyone who calls your flop bet, why even bother playing the hand at all?

M

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

Check turn for pot control reasons, call reasonable river bet if lead into, value bet if checked to.

If you run into an opponent who fires every time you check the turn, then you should be able to exploit that tendency by checking the turn with your stronger holdings.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

i think he was referring to late in tournament play as the scenario given had Hero at 15 big blinds at the start of the hand.

Re: Matt Matros article from Card Player: AK and Fold Equity
 

seems simple enough. pfr has a wide range. you have a hand only dominated by AA/KK and is a near coinflip to many of his other holdings. given the shallow stacks pfr may even be inclined to call a push with hands that we dominate such as AQ and he may be disinclined to call with hands that he has an equity edge over us such as 77.