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2 intresting hands for the day
No real reads.
Hand 1 Passive-ish table, this guy likes to donk so I figured my hand was best. PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: (5 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls. Turn: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero checks. River: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero checks. <font color="red">Question:</font> Donk bettor does not bet, its checked to me on the flop, my action? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hand 2 PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (5 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks. Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks. Turn: (2.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls. River: (5.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP folds, Hero folds. Final Pot: 6.50 BB |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
Hand 1 question - You'd bet. Charge the flush draws and OESDs. I guessa lot of cards can screw you though, so maybe a check is ok. Hmmm reverse implied odds maybe?
Hand 2 - Mp didn't bet the flop, is this guy a wimp who gets scared if his kickers not above 6 or something? UTG randomly bets on the queen, i call this. I reckon he'll have a weaker Queen or TEN enough to pay us off and we're closing the action. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
In Hand 1, couldn't we bet/fold the turn. I think a free river is bad since you want fewer players to maximize your chances of winning. Also, I think you'll get to showdown more that way. I'm surprised everyone checked to you on the river, although I haven't played much 5/10.
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Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
I play lower limits than this but I don't think its too different.
Hand 1 - Preflop seems questionable. I would bet the turn to charge any hands with a high club. Take free showdown if possible. Hand 2 - It gets checked around on flop, why not bet? You didn't raise preflop, so they weren't checking to you hoping to checkraise. If two people call you are betting your flush for value. And I'd call the river, I know its a small pot, but I think we're good here enough of the time. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
don't like the preflop call in hand 1 at all. don't like the turn check at all, definitely bet/fold.
don't like the flop check in hand 2 either. i also think i'd call the river, UTG played whatever he has quite strangely. your hand's not bad, i think you're good often enough after this action. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
Do you bet a non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] turn in hand 1? If you're not betting the turn, it really doesn't look right to raise the flop. You're not going to fold everyone and get it heads-up. I'm assuming you're not calling any turn or river bets in the actual hand.
In hand 2, why not bet the flop for value? This would be a standard play for me with about 12 outs. I'm playing at 1/10 the level, though. On thee river, are you putting UTG squarely on QJ? Seems like any other better Q would have bet, as would AJ. I guess a weak-ish K could have played this the same. I think it's close, but probably not bad. We need to be good about 13% of the time, and we're probably not versus an unknown. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
[ QUOTE ]
don't like the preflop call in hand 1 at all. don't like the turn check at all, definitely bet/fold. [/ QUOTE ] and if called by one or two players are u checking river? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As far as what to do if hand 1 is checked to me here is Schneids/PJN?waffle from irc. <oreogod>: okay u hold J5s OTB and limp after a MP limper and co poster. sb completes, bb checks. Flop is 235 w/ 2 clubs w/ 4 other players in. none of your suit, checked to u. Your action? <Schneids>: um bet? <waffle>: seems like an ez bet oreo <@cnfuzzd> hmm <@cnfuzzd> i can see a check here <waffle> heh, i guess there's no turn you want to see other than one of your 5 <@cnfuzzd> i dont think it would be that bad <@cnfuzzd> reverso implied odds <@cnfuzzd> except <waffle> if it's passive, you might be able to chk thru turn after you bet flop <@cnfuzzd> alot of hands will call you, <@cnfuzzd> however <@cnfuzzd> most of those hands will be drawing quite live <oreogod> well pjn, Im on the fence. I see a bet and a check. I dont think we get c/r'ed much, we get a lot of callers though. <waffle> collectively, your opponents w/ have a shitload of outs against you <+Schneids> if you cant bet here, fold j5s pf <+Schneids> what kind of flop do you want? <@cnfuzzd> bet <+Schneids> because collectively your opps have a lot of outs you need to bet so they'll fold 98, q9, etc <@cnfuzzd> i agree <@cnfuzzd> its a bet -------------------------------------------------------- As far as Hand 2. I had just read Barry Tannenbaums article on improper betting from the button and deceided to check here (because I usually dont...the article just flashed in my head and I was like, wtf, lets check). Thats the reason I posted the hand. River was kind of bleh. Which is another thing I was curious on as the guy played it weird. I usually call, but at least this was one of the times I was beat, guy flashed Kx. Got to love the super passives. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
Hand 1: I think I bet/fold the turn, and fold to a river bet when the 4 completes the A draws.
Hand 2: I haven't played 10/20 yet, but you have as many as 15 outs on the flop, so I would bet this for value. I guess the flop bet would change the way the hand was played, and I would most likely call the river bet with the inflated pot. The way you played it, I'm still not sure about the river fold. Can you explain your thinking there? |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
IN hand 1 the turn is a super easy bet/fold. In hand two checking the flop is bad, you've got a v. good draw in position with loads of quity, pump it uop.
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Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
I really don't like the river fold in hand 2. Its not like you're overcalling and the bettor can have a Ten.
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Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
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Can you explain your thinking there? [/ QUOTE ] as u can see, besides on the flop where I was thinking about Tannenbaum (not sure I agree on his concept, but I decided to try it anyway)...the river was just bad. I think I was talking to Mugaaz and just clicked fold without really thinking it through. I just knew him as a passive player and thought it was possible I was beat...I didnt compare it to the pot or anything, so that was bad. The hands I usually post are the most intresting or worse played hands Ive had for the day...so some of these make me look like a terrible player. Sorry to say my ADD kicks in sometimes. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
So I wrote Barry Tannenbaum about this hand, because I was curious what he'd say. Anyway what he wrote is below.
Thoughts? Not saying he's right or wrong, etc. Just thought it was intresting. Barry: I assume you posted this on 2+2 (nickname: All Aggression All the Time). Let’s look at what might happen if you bet. * Everyone folds. This is good, but unlikely. * You get two or more callers. This is good too, since you have 12 likely outs (but none for the nuts – and this is important). * You get one caller or, worse, a check raise and everyone else folds. This is bad as now you are paying two bets for your free card and getting a bad current price. The point is, you have no idea which one will happen. You have no nut outs, so you could be drawing dead (again, unlikely but certainly possible). It is kind of like limping with 66 UTG. If you get six callers, you did well. If you get raised and re-raised, you wish you didn’t bet. My preference is when I have nothing and if I bet god or bad things might happen is to take the free card and that’s what I wrote. I understand it can be a minority view. So you take your choice. I am just a guy who makes money playing poker and is sharing what he things works for him. If I were playing in a loose passive game where nobody check-raised, I would bet the hand around half the time, maybe more. If I were playing a super tight game where once people checked they tended to always fold, I would bet a lot. In most games, I prefer check here. If I had a gut-shot straight draw and a flush draw and they were both to the nuts, you could convince me to bet more often. And just because I check here does not mean I won’t get another free card on the turn. I like those too. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
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but none for the nuts – and this is important [/ QUOTE ] Haha. [ QUOTE ] You have no nut outs [/ QUOTE ] Hahaha. [ QUOTE ] If you get raised and re-raised, you wish you didn’t bet. [/ QUOTE ] Hahahahahaha! [ QUOTE ] If I were playing in a loose passive game where nobody check-raised, I would bet the hand around half the time [/ QUOTE ] Hahahahahahahahaha!!! GoT |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
Hand 1 - Bet / fold, almost every hand you are behind will raise you, lots of players will pay to draw.
Hand 2 - Bet, monster draw, almost always good. Take control of this hand. If we check and complete our draw on the turn, we may get bet into but that isn't concrete. I bet and then the rest of the hand plays differently. I think this can depend a lot on your image. If you are TAG, check. If you are LAG bet. True |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
okay so talking with GoT and he's cracking up about BT's advice. When I played the Q9s hand, my goal was to get a discussion on the idea that Tannenbaum presented. I suppose it was retarded, but I found it intresting to see this idea in a cardplayer (something I had not really read before). I have no idea if the writers there are decent/good players, etc.
anyway some of GoTs chat (he went off on this for a bit). GoT: he completely ignores thefact GoT: that betting vs checking GoT: even when you do get exactly 1 caller GoT: gives you good turn folding equity GoT: and also GoT: when you get 2 callers GoT: you get to check it thru GoT: as opposed to checking the flop Me: at least 45 percent equity on that flop GoT: i.e. not making any money GoT: and then calling the turn GoT: when the pot is TINY GoT: i.e. making v little money GoT: betting is w/o a doubt GoT: the best option Me = retard for today. But you cant fault me for always finding intrest or wanting to start discussion on ideas I come across, retarded or not. |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
Hand 1 fold preflop, bet the turn
Hand 2 Bet the flop, call the river |
Re: 2 intresting hands for the day
beat me to it.
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