Running it twice...
 

How about some detailed situations when you would offer... or accept... an offer to run it twice or more.

Also justifications for same.

Re: Running it twice...
 

it doesnt change the EV of the hand at all, it just reduces variance.

Re: Running it twice...
 

When you flop the nuts, but there are draws all over the place. It would help you if your hand is a favorite, obviously, to run it more times.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
it doesnt change the EV of the hand at all, it just reduces variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets say youre playing with a lot of money and have As Ac and get it all in on board of Th 6s 7s against Ts Js. You might offer to run it more than once--and generally you'd do it three times here, for one third of the pot each time, since its a near-coinflip situation. This way the fact that you both made the decision to gamble doesnt get lost, someone will win money, but probably not the whole pot.

Incidentally, in this situation, you burn, turn, burn, river, muck the cards, then do the same twice more. You do not shuffle cards back into deck.

Re: Running it twice...
 

the one time i saw it happen, the hand went like this:

UTG raised, Gambler called

Flop - 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG bet, Gambler raised, UTG pushed

Gambler says, "well, i think you have aces. you have the best hand right now, but i'll call if we can run it twice." the other guy says, "okay." Gambler pushes his chips in the middle and flips over Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], UTG shows A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

The first run comes runner-runner clubs then the second run blanks off giving AA the scoop.

Re: Running it twice...
 

This is a good idea if:

It doesn't slow the game down too much.
You can't handle variance.
If someone in the hand goes broke, the game would break.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a good idea if:

It doesn't slow the game down too much.
You can't handle variance.
If someone in the hand goes broke, the game would break.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think "You can't handle variance" is relevant. If you can't handle the variance, you shouldn't be in the game.

Re: Running it twice...
 

I'd run it twice everytime if it were for a decent amount of money. Unless the deck is hot.

-SmileyEH

Re: Running it twice...
 

The only time I would refuse to run it twice is if I'm at a standard stack and a fish is on a double-stack. In that case, I want to build up to cover the fish, so splitting the pot half-and-half doesn't do me any good, whereas if I lose the hand, I can rebuy to where I was anyway.

Re: Running it twice...
 

The only reason not to (aside from gambling which can be fun) I think would be to get a big stack.

Say there is a capped buyin of 100b and some fish has 250 or whatever... I'd rather try to get enough to gamble with him.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good idea if:

It doesn't slow the game down too much.
You can't handle variance.
If someone in the hand goes broke, the game would break.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think "You can't handle variance" is relevant. If you can't handle the variance, you shouldn't be in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, fine, you have a point, but on the other hand I can sit down with 200 bucks, and while I can handle losing it, that also has to mean my night is over, and frankly I'd like to not drop it in one hand.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a good idea if:

It doesn't slow the game down too much.
You can't handle variance.
If someone in the hand goes broke, the game would break.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think "You can't handle variance" is relevant. If you can't handle the variance, you shouldn't be in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, fine, you have a point, but on the other hand I can sit down with 200 bucks, and while I can handle losing it, that also has to mean my night is over, and frankly I'd like to not drop it in one hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Barry Greenstein made a good point a few months ago when he was on L@TB. If you always allow people to run the cards multiple times they do not fear your raises. They think that they are all right moving in or calling with draws because chances are they will at least 1/3rd of the pot (if you run it 3 times). I see it all the time with Mo our NL host at the bike. He'll always run the cards multiple times (and most people will comply) and that allows him to move over the top with little fear. It is true that multiple runs do not change the EV one iota but there is definitely an "image" argument against it.

It also makes for a less exciting show which is why I try to discourage the players from doing it--lol.

Re: Running it twice...
 

Here is a hand I played several months ago in a private game. Villian is a nice guy, but very supersitious. He is one of the reasons I am in the game, he has lots of money and is the ATM in this game. One of his supersitions is losing his first AI/big hand, I have seen him pack it up several times after losing his first big hand saying "well I am going to be unlucky tonight, better just stop now".

We get into a big hand, the board reads AA7r, he has AJ and I have AK. I 3-bet AI to his c/r. We finally decide to run it three times. He took the first run with a J on the turn, I took the next two with blanks.

He was happy that he "did not lose his first AI" so he rebought instead of packing it in for the night. I was happy that I kept him in the game and took the majority of a big pot.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The first run comes runner-runner clubs then the second run blanks off giving AA the scoop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the winner of the second run got to scoop the whole pot, irregardless of the first run's outcome. Was this their agreement?

Re: Running it twice...
 

AA won both runs.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The first run comes runner-runner clubs then the second run blanks off giving AA the scoop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the winner of the second run got to scoop the whole pot, irregardless of the first run's outcome. Was this their agreement?

[/ QUOTE ]

irregardless is not a word.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The first run comes runner-runner clubs then the second run blanks off giving AA the scoop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the winner of the second run got to scoop the whole pot, irregardless of the first run's outcome. Was this their agreement?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no point in running it twice if the guy who wins the second run automatically scoops the pot. If Player A wins the first run and Player B wins the second run, they chop the pot. Otherwise, one player scoops. I can't imagine that their agreement was anything else.

And as for "irregardless," it's a word. But it sounds silly.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The first run comes runner-runner clubs then the second run blanks off giving AA the scoop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the winner of the second run got to scoop the whole pot, irregardless of the first run's outcome. Was this their agreement?

[/ QUOTE ]

You missed that the AA hand had the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so he made the nut flush the first time to beat the QJ's Q-high flush and, on the second time, his pair of aces held up as the best hand.

Re: Running it twice...
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't handle the variance, you shouldn't be in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not right. You can be risk-averse and still be correct to sit in a profitable game. The benefit may outweigh the risk. When you have the chance to run a hand multiple times, you get to reduce the risk without changing the EV.

Would you be happy to bet half of your bankroll on AA vs. KK preflop? Most of us would, but we would be much more comfortable if we could run it multiple times.