Basic preflop question
 

Party 5/10 table that's fantastic.

Guy posts in the CO, I have mined stats that tell me he's 25/8 over like 200 hands.

LAG button raises. He's 75/25 over around 100, and has been raising and 3-betting with all kinds of stuff. And taking most to showdown. I haven't got involved with her much so far in the session.

I'm in the SB with ATo. This means I'm likely ahead of a good portion of the button's range.

The BB is loose, 37ish vpip but not very aggro. He's called two cold in spots like this and has defending to steals almost constantly.

SO:

What's my action?

Re: Basic preflop question
 

I immediately thought raise, but we are out of position and raising deines nobodies ranges at all. When CO doesn't fold we are probably beaten.

I think call because of our position but i suck.

True

Re: Basic preflop question
 

i'd go ahead and raise, you might be up against a big field OOP but it's doubtful that you're dominated, and who knows BB/CO could very well fold they aren't that loose. CO especially, decently tight players if they aren't raising their CO post it's tough to call two back

Re: Basic preflop question
 

I 3bet to get the CO out.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

Seems like an easy 3-bet here. If the TAG liked his hand at all he would have certainly raised, so he's almost definitely dropping.

We're probably ahead of the lag, and ditto for the BB. OOP isn't great, but that's the beats.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

if the TAG doesn't like his hand, most of time he will fold for just one??

True

Re: Basic preflop question
 

3bet easy! Co's just junk and although your position sucks... you can probably C/c and let him bluff like hell anyways.

If you've not won any pots he may not be scared of you, whats your table image in your opinion?

Id 3bet and get it HU.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
if the TAG doesn't like his hand, most of time he will fold for just one??

True

[/ QUOTE ]

Closing the action here for one more SB 4-way I'm gonna be pretty liberal. Most suited cards, any middle cards, etc. Alot of hands I'm not raising there I'll call one more with.

That said, I never post, so I could be misinformed.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

Raise or fold. I dont' think you want to be in a 4-way pot w AT. Reads justify a raise to get it HU w the button. I'd say it's one of those moves you make when you know you're playing well- -otherwise pass.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise or fold. I dont' think you want to be in a 4-way pot w AT. Reads justify a raise to get it HU w the button. I'd say it's one of those moves you make when you know you're playing well- -otherwise pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd much rather call here than fold. Raising > calling > folding, IMO.

I actually typed up a post making an argument for calling, but it became clear to me that raising was better.

We can checkraise the crap outa a ton of flops and really control this board by just limping preflop. We're probably best preflop, so I can't think of any reason to fold here. The only question is which maximizes our EV, Raising or Calling. In this case it seems pretty clearly raising.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

3bet.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise or fold. I dont' think you want to be in a 4-way pot w AT. Reads justify a raise to get it HU w the button. I'd say it's one of those moves you make when you know you're playing well- -otherwise pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd much rather call here than fold. Raising > calling > folding, IMO.

I actually typed up a post making an argument for calling, but it became clear to me that raising was better.

We can checkraise the crap outa a ton of flops and really control this board by just limping preflop. We're probably best preflop, so I can't think of any reason to fold here. The only question is which maximizes our EV, Raising or Calling. In this case it seems pretty clearly raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like raising because of c/r potential, but we still have the c/r potential even with a call, but we get more money in PF from people we can face with 2 cold on the flop / turn.

True

Re: Basic preflop question
 

Easy 3bet to try and get it HU. The TAG has announced he hates his hand, so at this point we can consider him as dead money in the pot providing a nice overlay on our play. Since we should be 3betting the LAG button's raise from the SB with ATo in a pure steal situation, this just makes the 3bet even easier. The loose BB is a problem, but at only 37VPIP, he folds way too often for us to not try and get this pot HU ASAP.

Also, many players open a lot lighter after a CO poster checks, meaning we are likely an even greater favourite against the button's range. Not 3betting here is a pretty bad IMO.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

I'm 3 betting. We don't want this to be a mutiway pot w/ us oop position, and we definetly don't want to fold. 3bet.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

I Think the fact the BB will most likely call, and that the poster will most likely fold, offset each other. So I 3 bet. Id rather have an 10SB pot 3 way, than an 8sb pot 4 way, with A high OOP.

Altho, I think there is still a decent chance the poster folds for the 1 bet, as I think anyhand youd call here getting 7-1 with, a TAG prolly raises in a post. In which case, I like calling better, cuz then you can c/r the flop. (unless the guy is so aggro you can still check the flop even after 3 betting and hell still bet it for you)

Re: Basic preflop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's my action?

[/ QUOTE ]

I say Raise. CO is dead money. BB is dead money. Button is LAG. You got a pretty good hand, take a shot. If everybody calls though, I wouldn't marry the hand.

Re: Basic preflop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think anyhand youd call here getting 7-1 with, a TAG prolly raises in a post.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is not true at all.

First, The guy is 25/8...this doesn't really make him THAT TAG. He's too passive pre-flop and I'm guessing he open-limps certain hands from the CO or button already (with or without posting) just based on those stats.


Also, even a 26/22 player could have some hands that he would only check with from the CO that he would be willing to call 1 bet cold with. low suited connectors come to mind.
As well as middle, suited 1-gappers and unsuited connectors.

Think about it here: Raising with 98o or 54s in the CO here would be kind of nutty.
But if it's 7:1 coming back to you (plus you have position) it would be a mistake to fold.

So 3-bet that ATo to push our very passive psuedo-TAG off the wide-range of hands that he should be more than happy to call 1 bet with.

If BB really is going to CC a 3-bet with a wide range why does that make us afraid of him?
Our AT is going to be better than most hands he's calling with in that case so I think that should give our re-raise value.
BB is making a bigger mistake by calling 2 cold here with many hands so just do it.
We'd like to get him out to get it HU...but if he's really determined to cold-call with his mostly-garbage then that's not such a bad thing at all really.

3-bet is the obvious choice I would think.