No Bullets Left
 

Bellagio 30-60. UTG limps, I'm next with 55 and limp (loose, passive game generally at the time). One other limper and a mid position player raises. He plays decently postflop but has somewhat loose opening standards. Also, he tends to continue pushing hands in situations where it might be better to take a free card. One other player (loose) coldcalls and the blinds fold.

We see the flop four-handed and it comes down 9-4-2 rainbow. UTG checks, I bet, PRF raises, loose player calls cold (could be any pair, overcards, etc...I think a nine 3-bets on his part). Folded back to me and I call.

Three of us see the turn card: offsuit 7 (9-4-2-7). I check, PFR bets, loose guy folds and I call.

I strongly considered checkraising this turn card. Is that valid or should I just call down here (does anyone like a fold - I don't really)? I think raising this turn gets him to fold his worst overcard hands (and possibly better ones). Maybe even something like 88 folds, but who knows. Anyway, I call.

The river is an offsuit 10 and I check with the intention of calling a bet. How botched is this hand, if at all?

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: No Bullets Left
 

Format this please - line spacing, etc.

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What about 3 betting the flop or donking again on the turn? I'd be worried about him taking a free card on the turn and you will get a much more clear picture of whether or not you need to be showdown bound.

-DeathDonkey

Re: No Bullets Left
 

[ QUOTE ]
What about 3 betting the flop or donking again on the turn? I'd be worried about him taking a free card on the turn and you will get a much more clear picture of whether or not you need to be showdown bound.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I have stopped doing this against opponents like this is that sometimes they will go crazy with AK or AQ, or maybe some crap like JT. Here, given the OP's description, I don't think we have to be worried about giving free cards. I think the benefits of getting to a showdown cheaply outweigh the benefits of trying to charge him (which he would probably do himself anyways).

-DrG

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This one looks fine to me Jeff. I really think a turn checkraise would have been great though. You are pretty sure that you are ahead at this point and the pot is already getting big enough that you don't mind taking it down right away. The question is, against this guy, if he three bets the turn what is your move?

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I like to check these types of flops and reevaluate my situation after the pfr bets. In this situation I'd prolly check call the flop and donk the turn if there was no raise on the flop

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I like to check these types of flops and reevaluate my situation after the pfr bets. In this situation I'd prolly check call the flop and donk the turn if there was no raise on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, seems to be the cheapest path

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Except that you are much more likely to be raised by a hand like AQ on the turn making this "suspect" play in my experience. So, you are betting the turn planning to fold to a raise? Because I think that is setting yourself up to be moved off the best hand...I personally think a bet is going in (turn follow through) by this opponent the vast majority of the time so he is charging himself anyway if behind. Just my perspective...

Jeff

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Jeff, you described this game as loose passive...would someone really raise the turn with a hand like AQ? On the turn there are still 3 players involved which would make it seem less likely this would occur.

I like the check call flop, donk turn line. I think for sure you are beat if raised there. I'd hate to be raised off the best hand, but I'd also hat to have to go check/check and then have someone that would have folded spike an overcard.

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Except that you are much more likely to be raised by a hand like AQ on the turn making this "suspect" play in my experience.

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AQ would be going for a free showdown here right? If he's likely to do that with overcards, call the turn raise and fold to a river bet.

The way you played the hand, I have trouble telling how much your opponent's range is limited by his flop raise, if its limited at all. If he's raising the flop with any two, a turn check-raise sounds good. If it's mainly with pairs and strong ace-hi's, how about check-calling the turn and bet-folding the river hoping to get a bet from the strong aces that will check behind.

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Like I said, I'd prolly donk the turn but if I thought I'd get raised w/overs, I'd gladly check the turn b/c this is the type of guy who will likely bet overs again on the turn. Against a more passive guy I'd donk but against the aggro guys I'll check call the turn

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Jeff -

I don't see another way to play it unless the turn had been overcalled, then you could fold. I'd give strong consideration to checkraising the turn but if he calls, what in the hell is your line because he's going to call quite a bit here with the size of the pot.

Once it's heads up I'm trying for a cheap show, and that's really going to suck if a picture shows up on the river.

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Flame me, if its called for (thats how I learn) but can a check/fold be justified on the flop if there is just a bet and a call?

You may have the best hand, but if you don't you are putting in at least two big bets on the river drawing very very thin. Also, if you don't have the best hand there really seems to be no way to push anyone off a hand that beats you.

If you do have the best on the flop it still has to survive 2 more cards against at least one player probably going nowhere.

On average on the flop, I think you may be a % winner...but because of your position a money loser.

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I like the way you played this a lot. Normally I would say bet the turn but your read makes a check-call OK since he is going to put the bets in for us.

I always feel silly when I play a hand like this and get shown JJ but against people who will not let go of that sweet sweet A card you have to show it down.

RESULTS
 

Thanks for the comments everyone. My opponent bet the river and I called. He had A10 so he rivered the winner. More comments welcome.

Jeff

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Depends on what range of hands our opponent is going to play in this manner. If he fires away with all his missed overcard hands we are getting plenty of overlay to call this down.

Your comment about position hurting us is valid since it could change our calldown price if he checks behind on the river whenever we are winning (reverse implied odds).

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I really like a turn check raise. The description of this player sounds exactly like me. Getting raised on the turn is the death of morons like me who bet with nothing too much on the turn after getting called on a dry flop. Usually they get trapped into calling here. He's not a total maniac that's gonna 3bet you off the better hand either so it's pretty easy for you to let your hand go if that happens.