($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

***** Hand History for Game 3207325455 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:18311019 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Thursday, December 15, 20:32:02 EDT 2005
Table Table 66809 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: kamrann ( $1325 )
Seat 3: CGKVR ( $440 )
Seat 4: Lillschalk ( $1100 )
Seat 5: danmanbaby ( $365 )
Seat 6: CardKeene ( $745 )
Seat 7: stockmaster2 ( $865 )
Seat 8: QuasiFiction ( $1660 )
Seat 9: soma71 ( $900 )
Seat 10: Bazuulbazuul ( $600 )
Trny:18311019 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bazuulbazuul [ Td Th ]
kamrann folds.
CGKVR folds.
Lillschalk folds.
danmanbaby folds.
CardKeene calls [15].
stockmaster2 calls [15].
QuasiFiction raises [65].
soma71 calls [55].
Bazuulbazuul calls [50].
CardKeene calls [50].
stockmaster2 calls [50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 2h, 8s ]
soma71 bets [150].
Bazuulbazuul is all-In.
CardKeene folds.
stockmaster2 folds.
QuasiFiction calls [535].
soma71 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qc ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
Bazuulbazuul shows [ Td, Th ] two pairs, tens and eights.
QuasiFiction shows [ Ks, Kd ] two pairs, kings and eights.
QuasiFiction wins 1545 chips from the main pot with two pairs, kings and eights.
Bazuulbazuul finished in ninth place.
Bazuulbazuul has left the table.

I couldn't ask for a better flop that doesn't have a T in it... I wanted to push all the AK/AJs out... with 4ppl in a raised pot, should I have expected overpairs?

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

I'd fold preflop (seriously).

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

Tought spot, great flop for your TT.

I probably flat call soma's flop bet because the original pre-flop raiser, Quasi, has yet to act. Then, wait and see what happens. If Quasi raises behind, you can probably still get away from this hand especially if soma calls the raise.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

Always? I thought I was tight but never dreamed of folding TT in front of a raiser and a cold caller.

When do you fold TT? One raiser? Raiser+caller? Do previous limpers matter too?

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

Yes if I had called preflop, which I wouldn't because: a) it's more than 10% of your stack (and you have to be figuring to play for set value here) and b) will be OOP on the flop with 4 people in it.. I would just flat call the flop bet as well.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

I think you played it fine and don't agree about pre-flop fold. There is a LOT of dead money in that pot and TT is relatively easy to get away from.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Always? I thought I was tight but never dreamed of folding TT in front of a raiser and a cold caller.

When do you fold TT? One raiser? Raiser+caller? Do previous limpers matter too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so much that, look at your stack and the position you will be on the flop, and the fact it's going to be 4 way more than likely at least, and the pot size will mean you are basically pot committed for your stack. So, I'd definitely just let this one go, OR push preflop, either are better than calling IMHO.

How did you lose 200 chips anyway?

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop (seriously).

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say this cuz quasi's multitabling and therefore only raising QQ-AA?

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

With someone in front of you betting into the pre-flop raiser and said raiser still to act behind you I'd be real hesitant to get involved with TT on that flop. Your tens could be good, but you're not going to find out until it's too late to do anything about it. By pushing, you're effectively gambling that he doesn't have JJ+, since he's going away with overcards to two bettors in front of him (in all likliehood) whether you push or not. Calling when more than 1/3 of the deck would be bad on the turn is no great option, either, of course.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes if I had called preflop, which I wouldn't because: a) it's more than 10% of your stack (and you have to be figuring to play for set value here) and b) will be OOP on the flop with 4 people in it.. I would just flat call the flop bet as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling post-flop is very bad. Your committing a huge chunk of your stack and giving hands like AK solid odds to draw out. This is a push. I'm not sure how you can make an argument that calling pre-flop is no good because 50 chips is too much of your stack and then recommend flat-calling the flop.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

I would fold to the 150 bet on the flop, with QuasiFiction to act behind me plus all the other callers one of them may have like an 87 or something.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine and don't agree about pre-flop fold. There is a LOT of dead money in that pot and TT is relatively easy to get away from.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except, of course, that it wasn't.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop (seriously).

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you say this cuz he's multitabling and therefore only raising QQ-AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's partly it, but no, I say it because any call and the pot is going to be about 250 and you have 500 behind - you're going to be playing for your stack on the flop. That's a horrible situation to be in with TT. You should take careful note of Irie's post to the AQ hand as this is the situation in reverse.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine and don't agree about pre-flop fold. There is a LOT of dead money in that pot and TT is relatively easy to get away from.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought too. ANY overcard, even a J, and I would have folded to any action in a 4-way raised pot.

That said, I respect Tigerite a lot and I think I'll take his advice on being less aggressive with TT in the early rounds. I'm losing a lot of SNGs due to early aggression... the moves seem justified and unlucky, but I'll give tightening up a shot and saving my aggression for the middle levels.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Always? I thought I was tight but never dreamed of folding TT in front of a raiser and a cold caller.

When do you fold TT? One raiser? Raiser+caller? Do previous limpers matter too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so much that, look at your stack and the position you will be on the flop, and the fact it's going to be 4 way more than likely at least, and the pot size will mean you are basically pot committed for your stack. So, I'd definitely just let this one go, OR push preflop, either are better than calling IMHO.

How did you lose 200 chips anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quasi's raise to 65 means AA-QQ or AK. I would fold preflop or play it for set value (it will be paid off against his range).

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold to the 150 bet on the flop, with QuasiFiction to act behind me plus all the other callers one of them may have like an 87 or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually now I think about it, yes, a fold is much better than a call. Not sure what I was thinking there, brain fart moment.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Always? I thought I was tight but never dreamed of folding TT in front of a raiser and a cold caller.

When do you fold TT? One raiser? Raiser+caller? Do previous limpers matter too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not so much that, look at your stack and the position you will be on the flop, and the fact it's going to be 4 way more than likely at least, and the pot size will mean you are basically pot committed for your stack. So, I'd definitely just let this one go, OR push preflop, either are better than calling IMHO.

How did you lose 200 chips anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quasi's raise to 65 means AA-QQ or AK. I would fold preflop or play it for set value (it will be paid off against his range).

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I don't really know Quasi but if this is the case then Tiger is probably right that it is a fold pre-flop. Reads next time please:P

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]

How did you lose 200 chips anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]
I lost the 200 chips the hand before with this play:



***** Hand History for Game 3207317890 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:18311019 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Thursday, December 15, 20:30:46 EDT 2005
Table Table 66809 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: kamrann ( $1325 )
Seat 3: CGKVR ( $440 )
Seat 4: Lillschalk ( $1100 )
Seat 5: danmanbaby ( $365 )
Seat 6: CardKeene ( $745 )
Seat 7: stockmaster2 ( $865 )
Seat 8: QuasiFiction ( $1675 )
Seat 9: soma71 ( $685 )
Seat 10: Bazuulbazuul ( $800 )
Trny:18311019 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bazuulbazuul [ 9h 9c ]
Bazuulbazuul calls [15].
kamrann folds.
CGKVR folds.
Lillschalk folds.
danmanbaby folds.
CardKeene folds.
stockmaster2 folds.
QuasiFiction calls [5].
soma71 raises [60].
Bazuulbazuul raises [185].
QuasiFiction will be using his time bank for this hand.
QuasiFiction folds.
soma71 is all-In.
Bazuulbazuul folds.
soma71 does not show cards.
soma71 wins 900 chips



Was representing a monster limping UTG, then got a bad case of chickenshititis when Soma pushed my RR. Another example of early aggression gone bad. I'm starting to think this may be my leak-du-juor.



Edited for spelling.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

Wow, no, don't do that. That's awful.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

FPS

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

[ QUOTE ]
FPS

[/ QUOTE ]
What does FPS mean? Or FYP while I'm asking about acros.

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

fancy play syndrome...i.e. playing like WPT in 33 SNGs:)

Re: ($33) neg ROI help continued: Damn you QuasiFiction!
 

Hah! Perfect. I have FPS. OK, I'm gonna adjust my play accordingly. Thanks everyone, especially Tigerite, Gildwulf and Duron.