AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

UTG+1 is 52/3.77/0.52 after 53 hands.

from my experience many limp-reraisers will have AA,KK or Axs. Most of them doing this at .5/1 are pretty awful players.

The only place I think my play is questionable is the river.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: (17.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 25.75 BB

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I had to look over this a couple times, but it actually looks perfect on every street.

nh

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

You had TPTK plus a lot of outs on the flop. Raising as much as possible to protect your hand from then on was the best move.

What happened, you have to split the pot with the straight when he showed you King-deuce?

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

Villian is pretty darn passive for this type of aggression and if this kind of tricky play is out of character for him then I think I would have only called the 3-bet on the turn and called a single bet on the river (and then kick myself for not capping it when I showdown the best hand).

This may be weak on my part mind you. River play is still the weakest part of my game (I tend hands by call too many winnng hands vice raising them) so take it FWIW.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

On the turn, you are winning or freerolling a large percentage of the time vs opponents LRRing range. When you are behind, you still have 7 outs to win. The hands in her LRRing range that you are behind are Kxs, or T9h... and this is being generous. Don't stop raising this turn.

I think it might be a possible argument to slow down on the river, as you are either splitting with KK or losing to some awkward flush. Villian only has AA some small percentage of the time. Any takers?

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

[ QUOTE ]
You had TPTK plus a lot of outs on the flop. Raising as much as possible to protect your hand from then on was the best move.

What happened, you have to split the pot with the straight when he showed you King-deuce?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is not raising to protect his hand. He's raising for value. There's a big difference that you need to understand. How is any single raise here protect anything?


I definitely cap the turn. Villain likely has a K from the looks of it. A flush is very unlikely given the hearts we can see. We're only really worried about Kh9h, but if that's in his range, then there are a lot of other hand he could have here. We're most likely to be freerolling another K with our heart draw. I cap the turn, but I call one on the river.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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Hero is not raising to protect his hand. He's raising for value. There's a big difference that you need to understand. How is any single raise here protect anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

The heart flush. That's a distinct possibility that beats TPTK on either the turn or the river, even with the single heart in hero's hand.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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Hero is not raising to protect his hand. He's raising for value. There's a big difference that you need to understand. How is any single raise here protect anything?

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The heart flush. That's a distinct possibility that beats TPTK on either the turn or the river, even with the single heart in hero's hand.

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Explain to me how we are protecting our hand against the heart flush. Does capping the flop for protection give us a Level 10 Flush Force Field?

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I lost to K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lost to K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Buddy list.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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I cap the turn, but I call one on the river.

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I really thought it was near impossible he had a flush here, unless I'm against a total complete idiot that likes to cap PF just to make a big fun pot. Which evidently I was.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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I cap the turn, but I call one on the river.

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I really thought it was near impossible he had a flush here, unless I'm against a total complete idiot that likes to cap PF just to make a big fun pot. Which evidently I was.

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LRR has to have AA or maybe QQ or mayyyyybe AQ to make it correct to raise the river. How many ways for her to have these hands as opposed to any K and any flush?

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lost to K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn

gotta admit that's great

you badly overplayed the river. when the best you can hope for is a split pot, you should stop raising.

you should also consider emotions - you had probably isolated this player a fair bit. now he's pissed and is reraising you and donkapunishing you. the donkapunish factor is huge.

donkdonkdonkdonkdonkapunch!

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

like the flop
love the turn
on the river I'm either calling the first bet or the 3-bet (I lean twords raising and calling the 3-bet), but I'm not capping, even though this looks like the clown who limps with AA.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

[ QUOTE ]
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn


[/ QUOTE ]

I really hate you sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I realize a limp reraise at these levels will usually mean AA, but I have seen these donks LRR with all sorts of crap when its 2 more back to them just becuase they like playing in big pots.

With that in mind I dont see why you went so crazy on the river. You have to consider at some point he has a flush.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

[ QUOTE ]
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pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn
pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn pwn


[/ QUOTE ]

I really hate you sometimes [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
rofl

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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With that in mind I dont see why you went so crazy on the river. You have to consider at some point he has a flush.

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Villians play from the git go was very strong, I honestly thought I'd probably be chopping at the river but the chance I had the best hand was worth it. Most of the time when these morons play like this I will win here and every last bet that goes in the pot is to my benefit.

I really wish that last card had been a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so I could send him on his way with his tail between his legs.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

Grunch.

I like it.

I don't really know what you could be behind here. What would he limp-cap? AA, KK, QQ, AK? The worst you do is split with any of those hands. And he'd play AA EXACTLY like this on that flop. Wouldn't you?

I think I only call the river 3-bet, because I would just end up scared of the flush and most likely leave a bet out there. I just don't know what he could have limped-capped that would be a flush. K9s for the straight-flush? Unlikely.

But, then again, he is a 52/3 donk, and as long as it was 2 back to him on preflop, and a 52 would NEVER fold with some money in there, he may have just thrown the extra bet in to speed up play, and knowing he'd get two callers.

That opens up his range quite a bit.

nh.

EDIT after reading: I am the man. Oh yeah, buddy list.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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With that in mind I dont see why you went so crazy on the river. You have to consider at some point he has a flush.

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Villians play from the git go was very strong, I honestly thought I'd probably be chopping at the river but the chance I had the best hand was worth it. Most of the time when these morons play like this I will win here and every last bet that goes in the pot is to my benefit.

I really wish that last card had been a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so I could send him on his way with his tail between his legs.

[/ QUOTE ]
it would have been really great if it was the 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the river betting was uncapped.

hahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I played against a player with almost identical stats today (at 2-4) and she LRR twice during the session. The first time she held QJs UTG. The second time (MP), she call-folded on a flop of A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I thought of this thread, and I guess at low limits, AA is not the only LRRing hand.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I don't like the river raise personally. With a 4 card straight on the board he is likely to have a str8 as well or a flush. I really doubt that he is going this crazy with AA or KK, and after the turn action I am only raising if I have a read that someone is retarded LAG.

That being said .5/1 players that have a 53 VPIP do tend to be pretty retarded, and if they're retarded enough to limp/cap with a hand that currently beats you, then they are retarded enough to be doing this with AA. Though I do think the river cap is likely spewing.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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I guess at low limits, AA is not the only LRRing hand.

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Like I said in my OP, I often see a LRR with Axs, most often to cap it. I hate the LRR because I have no idea what these tards have.

I had another idiot yesterday that was 80/46/3 LRR me with K4s.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I think i'd just call the turn 3 bet because you hardly ever ahead here your either splitting or losing 90% of the time.

Then i'd call a river bet expecting to split the pot a lot more than i'm losing it.

I think you spewed a lot of chips with no chance of winning the pot outright.

Edit - I think capping the turn is fine because hero has the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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I guess at low limits, AA is not the only LRRing hand.

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Like I said in my OP, I often see a LRR with Axs, most often to cap it. I hate the LRR because I have no idea what these tards have.

I had another idiot yesterday that was 80/46/3 LRR me with K4s.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? LOL - must've been a rich guy.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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Villians play from the git go was very strong, I honestly thought I'd probably be chopping at the river but the chance I had the best hand was worth it.

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I think the chance of this happening coupled with the certainty of feeding the rake makes this a wash at best.

Edit: well maybe; does Party's rake trigger at 25BB?

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I just call the river, with the way he's had the pedal to the metal you're either splitting or losing 99.9% of the time.

Many limp-raisers will have AA, KK, or Axs. Many will also have K4s, J9s, 66, 86s or any number of silly silly hands. Some people think it's fun to build a pot, others think they're being pushed around when they get raised and decide to push back.

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

THis is fine

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I would have slowed down sooner. Sometimes I leave BB on the table by not value betting river. On this river I'm calling the first bet with the flush scare. It's either that or a split with any King. It doesn't make a lot of sense for him to Limp, cap pf but many players at this level don't make sense. Like the man said "Buddy list" You'll get it back in spades in the future. Just my opinion.

Cat

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I guess at low limits, AA is not the only LRRing hand.

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Like I said in my OP, I often see a LRR with Axs, most often to cap it. I hate the LRR because I have no idea what these tards have.

I had another idiot yesterday that was 80/46/3 LRR me with K4s.

[/ QUOTE ]

LRR can mean a lot of things

Re: AKo vs. a limper-reraiser
 

I'm going to have to think about this hand some more, but I think it is WAY more likely to see a limp re-raise with AA than it is with KK or AKs even though I have seen it with those other hands also.

Also, given that you 3-bet the flop and an A hit, doesn't his subsequent 3 bet on the flop lower the probability that he has KK.

Finally, his aggressiveness on the turn could indicate he did have KK for a STR8 (though I still doubt it).

I think I would have backed off on the river for sure.