Turn
 

BB is 30/19/3.67 after 300 (mostly mined) hands.
What's your turn action and how do you proceed after being raised? Is it an easy calldown?

CO calls, I raise A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in SB, BB calls

4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, BB raises, CO folds, I call

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, BB raises, ...

Re: Turn
 

call down.. pot gives 4-1? or so to see the river & villian is agressive. Dont expect to win most of the time though...
probably up against a flush

Re: Turn
 

Definitely call down. I C/R the turn though instead of donking it. This guy's betting almost always. The only reason to donkbet here is if you're commiting to a showdown. Since you can fold to a 3-bet, you're better off to C/R.

If I C/R and he 3-bets, I can probably find a fold even against this villian.

Re: Turn
 

I would 3-bet this with a better read. His stats show he's overagro postflop so he might be raising a lot of hands here like a flush draw or a worst ace. Stat "reads" are not good enough, so calling looks more standard. Still some percentage of 3-betting is OK to reduce semibluffs in the future.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Definitely call down. I C/R the turn though instead of donking it. This guy's betting almost always. The only reason to donkbet here is if you're commiting to a showdown. Since you can fold to a 3-bet, you're better off to C/R.

If I C/R and he 3-bets, I can probably find a fold even against this villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly.

Re: Turn
 

Again better reads would help. Checking is too risky. As the pot is small he will more likely take the free card and fold the river UI rather than semibluff esp. with the ace there.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Again better reads would help. Checking is too risky. As the pot is small he will more likely take the free card and fold the river UI rather than semibluff esp. with the ace there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you seen his aggression stat? I also like checkraising some of my good hands on the turn to discourage people taking shots at me when I miss.

Re: Turn
 

What do you do if he takes a free card on the turn and a diamond falls on the river? check-fold?

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if he takes a free card on the turn and a diamond falls on the river? check-fold?

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Bet-fold. Classic clarkmiester.

Re: Turn
 

Against most 1 diamond hands.
This play loses 0.2BB on the river (assuming he makes a flush 20%).
Betting the turn makes 0.8 BB.

Re: Turn
 

I like a checkraise better on the turn. Since BB is aggro, a nice checkraise should settle him down a bit. I like to make strong plays like this to send a message to the aggro player not to be betting so much. But anyway, the way you played it, I might even 3-bet this turn, but most likely I would call down. It depends on what kind of hands BB was showing down. He could be doing this with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , a hand that reverse dominates you, two pair like T8, or maybe you have him beat and he has K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and a Ten. He could even have a set. Considering the fact that you may have to bet/fold the river if a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] magically appears, I would just call this turn raise.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason to donkbet here is if you're commiting to a showdown. Since you can fold to a 3-bet, you're better off to C/R.

If I C/R and he 3-bets, I can probably find a fold even against this villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain this further? i'm not sure what you mean mate.

You mean if you're hand is so strong you're goign to a showdown so you don't mind being raised but you also dont want a free card?

Here we only have ace so what? we can risk giving a free card?

I dont understand how you mean.

I'd donk as i dont want a free card getting through. 3betting is tempting as he'll often think we're bluffing so will be raising weaker hands.. Specially with a AF of 3+!

Re: Turn
 

I'll probalby call down because BB is so post flop aggro. Against a passive player, I'd fold to the turn raise. BB has to figure one of our possible holdings to be a good ace and he's raising it.

Re: Turn
 

I don't think villain is taking a free card very often w/ agg like that. We can checkraise the turn and safely fold to a 3bet. The way it happened, I'm calling down.

Re: Turn
 

Donking the turn is fine. I think people underestimate how often even very aggressive players check behind the A here. A better reason than that though is that he'll be much more likely to fold his middle pair to a checkraise than a donkbet. 3 betting the turn is silly.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 betting the turn is silly.

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A 1-diamond hand is not folding to the 3-bet.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 betting the turn is silly.

[/ QUOTE ]
A 1-diamond hand is not folding to the 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're very likely behind once he raises. There's no reason to keep raising when you're likely behind.

Re: Turn
 

Why are we folding to a 3bet, hes super aggressive and A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] will be played like this so we've still got outs...

I also think KT or somethign raises this as the ace is SUCH A BLUFF card.

However im waiting for joshuaD to explain his line.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're very likely behind once he raises. There's no reason to keep raising when you're likely behind.

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There's no reason not to raise when you are ahead and the opponent will call your raise with a worse hand.

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're very likely behind once he raises. There's no reason to keep raising when you're likely behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's no reason not to raise when you are ahead and the opponent will call your raise with a worse hand.

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You think that once he raises you on the turn you're ahead more often than not? And what's you're plan if he caps?

Re: Turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only reason to donkbet here is if you're commiting to a showdown. Since you can fold to a 3-bet, you're better off to C/R.

If I C/R and he 3-bets, I can probably find a fold even against this villian.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you explain this further? i'm not sure what you mean mate.

You mean if you're hand is so strong you're goign to a showdown so you don't mind being raised but you also dont want a free card?

Here we only have ace so what? we can risk giving a free card?

I dont understand how you mean.

I'd donk as i dont want a free card getting through. 3betting is tempting as he'll often think we're bluffing so will be raising weaker hands.. Specially with a AF of 3+!

[/ QUOTE ]

By donk-betting, we guarantee that no more than 2 bets will go in on the turn, and that at most 1 will go in on the river. (Well, that's not exactly precise, he could call the turn and raise the river, but either way, 3 bets total)

If we C/R the turn and commit to a showdown, we're commiting to getting 4bets in there sometimes.

In this situation I don't want to pay to 4 to see a showdown, so the next question is whether I can fold to his turn 3-bet or whether it would commit me to calling down.

If I can fold to it, then I'm good to C/R. I don't mind that it would cost me 4 to see a showdown because I don't plan on seeing one.

On the other hand, if I'm not going to be able to fold to that 3-bet, I'd much rather just donk here and let him raise me isntead. Saving me a BB when I'm behind.

It's just actively controlling how many bets you're commiting to putting in.