Middle pair, standard fold?
 

Standard fold here? Just started a session and have no reads...

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero (poster) checks, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

no you cant fold because you have three sevens

(thats a lot of sevens)

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

Ughh don't post UTG just wait one hand. I fold this flop but the pot isn't exactly small at this point and time so that may be incorrect.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

*grunch*
Why post UTG?

On the flop, the pot is laying you 9:1 to call, and you have 3 outs to improve to trips or two-pair without completing the flush, plus a backdoor straight draw. In the micros you can probably count on 2 or 3 more calls behind you, giving you good implied odds to call.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

First off, why are you posting UTG? Wait one hand, dude. Second, cut off the action after BB bets into you, we don't need to see you would have hit trips on the turn. Lastly, you're getting 9:1 on your call, with prolly more calling behind you looking at the way the table played pf. I'd give you 2 outs for your 7's, 1.5 for your sixes (discounted due to possible str8), and 1.5 for your BDSD. I think you have enough to call here

-Jaran

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
no you cant fold because you have three sevens

(thats a lot of sevens)

[/ QUOTE ]

I folded the flop... I had 1 pair of 7s. Shouldn't have posted the whole hand.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
First off, why are you posting UTG? Wait one hand, dude. Second, cut off the action after BB bets into you, we don't need to see you would have hit trips on the turn. Lastly, you're getting 9:1 on your call, with prolly more calling behind you looking at the way the table played pf. I'd give you 2 outs for your 7's, 1.5 for your sixes (discounted due to possible str8), and 1.5 for your BDSD. I think you have enough to call here

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't people notice that kind of thing? I suppose it's such a small limit that it doesn't matter... I agree with the outs you counted, I should have called, thanks.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't people notice that kind of thing? I suppose it's such a small limit that it doesn't matter... I agree with the outs you counted, I should have called, thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, they don't. They're too busy playing their own hands to bother with whatever anybody else is doing. Having said that, I'd probably notice and peg you as a fish. Also, don't worry about what others think. This game is about making money, and you're costing yourself money by posting so early. My general rule is to post only from MP2 or later - if the table is full. Most here will say the only place to post is from the CO, but I think the cost is small in relation to the couple of extra hands I get in.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ughh don't post UTG just wait one hand. I fold this flop but the pot isn't exactly small at this point and time so that may be incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do the same. Just wait for the BB. The only time I post ahead of the BB is if I'm in LP and it's 10 handed.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

I think folding is the best play. You've got a weak made hand (middle pair no kicker) that's easily outdrawn if ahead (especially with the flush draw on board) and with little chance to improve if you're behind (I give you 4 outs), plus you're out of position with 6 players left to act behind you (the SB could check-raise). The only positive argument for not folding is the size of the pot (currently 9 SB and it'll only get bigger).

If you were sure there'd be no raise behind you, this is an easy call, but you don't want to call a raise with this hand.

However, if you're going to play this hand, I'd raise. It's not guaranteed that the BB has you beat. You won't get a flush or straight draw to fold, but you're happy if any overcards or big single diamonds fold.

Fold &gt;&gt; raise &gt; call

PP

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

If I was to continue I'd say raise, but this is a pretty rough spot to be in without any reads. You're probably better off folding.

I agree with everyone else about posting utg, it's almost always better to wait the one hand. The hijack is generally the last place I like to post, though some will post as early as MP2.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

You played it right. The people talking about implied odds and calls behind you are not thinking about the possibilities of raises behind you and drawing to dirty outs that may give other people gutshots or straights (like the 6 helping 9T and 45) and all the redraws you'd have to deal with if you did hit a 7. The right play was fold.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

In addition to what everyone else said, don't be results-oriented. Somehow I doubt this hand would have ever been posted if the 3rd seven hadn't hit the turn. There a numerous times you will make a good laydown only to see one of your outs (that you didn't have odds to chase) hit a later street.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You played it right. The people talking about implied odds and calls behind you are not thinking about the possibilities of raises behind you and drawing to dirty outs that may give other people gutshots or straights (like the 6 helping 9T and 45) and all the redraws you'd have to deal with if you did hit a 7. The right play was fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, good.

Stickdude: I think your right, I need to make sure I don't do that [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Standard fold here? Just started a session and have no reads...

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
Hero (poster) checks, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

1.75 outs for the sevens. 1.5 outs for the sixes. Maybe .5 for the backdoor straight draw. So about 3.75 total. Not enough for a call right now and it could be raised behind you. I think you did the right thing.

Re: Middle pair, standard fold?
 

Grunch:

Automatic fold with the rest of the table still to act behind you. If you were in position to close the betting for 1 more bet, its a call.