$109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

VillianA is probably a 2p2er and is fairly conservative early. I have played with VillianA a lot.

Villian B is not well known. Is probably not a 2p2er. Lost 1/2 his stack in a way that wasn't horribly donkish, but not well played.

NL Texas Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Level:1 Blinds(10/15)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: VillianA ( $985 )
Seat 2: VillianB ( $550 )
Seat 3: ( $985 )
Seat 4: ( $1000 )
Seat 5: ( $2010 )
Seat 6: ( $1510 )
Seat 7: ( $1000 )
Seat 8: ( $990 )
Seat 10: HERO ( $970 )
Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Jc Js ]
folds.
LIMPY calls [15].
folds.
Okayp1ayer folds.
HERO raises [50]
VillianA calls [50].
VillianB is all-In [550]
folds.
folds.
LIMPY folds.
HERO calls [500].
VillianA is all-In [935]
HERO is all-In [420]

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

it looks like you should have raised to isolate?

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

I don't like this at all. In general I don't like calling pushes, but this early, I especially don't like it.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
it looks like you should have raised to isolate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see it making a difference - if Villain A is calling 500, he's calling a push.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Micro, micro, micro. Are you getting too involved with JJ again?? I could understand in the game we played together as it was HU against a donk - but here? No, I'd just let it go after the push from the idiot. I know there's a big chance you're ahead of his range but you've only put 50 in to this pot. Just let it go!

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Ok, let's see if I can turn the tide.

I can virtually guarantee VillianA reraises with QQ+, so I'm not worried about him. If he does have AK, I might be better off isolating, but not too big a deal. He folds a worse ace for sure. I have all his other possible hands dominated. (except JJ)

VillianB is at least not very good, is likely on tilt, and I'm not playing for my whole stack. At the very worst, I'm about 54% favorite over his range, perhaps as much as 60%.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know there's a big chance you're ahead of his range

[/ QUOTE ]

Good reason to call.

[ QUOTE ]
but you've only put 50 in to this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad reason to fold.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Well no, I wouldn't fold if it was HU with the donk! But the fact that the 2p2er has called his raise makes me intently worried. If 2p2er had limped, you raised, and donk had pushed - my chips go in with the quickness. But that didn't happen here. C'mon you know I am not saying you should fold just because you've only put 50 chips into the pot. Hell I called a push at level 1 with AK to a particularly donky donk yesterday, in fact I re-pushed all in, he had KTs and MHWG.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can virtually guarantee VillianA reraises with QQ+,

[/ QUOTE ]

do you know villainA, or is just what you're guessing from the read?

i would not fold to the push. i think it doesn't make too much difference whether you call or push to his push. i'd push because i'm mentally lazy and don't want to deal with an Axx flop.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Micro, micro, micro. Are you getting too involved with JJ again?? I could understand in the game we played together as it was HU against a donk - but here? No, I'd just let it go after the push from the idiot. I know there's a big chance you're ahead of his range but you've only put 50 in to this pot. Just let it go!

[/ QUOTE ]

What if he also knew about the donk's suckiness, and the likelihood of him pushing all in, and therefore sandwiching you? Is this not possible? It might be something I would do for instance, especially as a re-raise would likely make the donk fold, and you fold as well.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Before I called the big bet the 2p2er had only called the raise to 50.

I am definitely willing to bet this tourney that this 2p2er reraises with QQ+.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Yes I know that but the crazy donk was to act after him. Maybe he thought that 'the pot will be t125 if I call.. that donk is more likely to go over the top with Ax and I can isolate this guy to my left as he is likely to either re-push or call to his push'? Well it's something I would consider anyway. If you are absolutely sure he wouldn't take this line with AA-QQ then yes you do have to call here.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

I'm sure you know, I mean reraises my first raise to 50.

Also, I don't know who they are other than their party name, so might not be a 2p2er, but plays like it.

Also, I don't mean to insult them by saying they don't reraise QQ+ or anything. I reraise QQ+ for sure in that spot.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

I do, I understand exactly what you are saying. There might be times it is correct to just call QQ+ there though if he has the same read on the donk you do. That's all I really mean. It's an absolute cast iron call if he has AK and I'm sure you know that it's not at all close.

Would you have reraised QQ+ even with your read on the donk and having a hunch he might have his eyes light up with such a juicy pot that he could push into? That's what I'm wondering. ABC poker play would dictate a raise to be mandatory here of course, but it's something I might do very occasionally to a solid player's raise behind me. It would be rare of course.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villian B is not well known. Is probably not a 2p2er. Lost 1/2 his stack in a way that wasn't horribly donkish, but not well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the read of the pusher before he pushes.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe he thought that 'the pot will be t125 if I call.. that donk is more likely to go over the top with Ax and I can isolate this guy to my left as he is likely to either re-push or call to his push'?

[/ QUOTE ]

you really think that from the above read the 2p2er is going to start making weird plays like cold-calling KK just because he thinks that the guy next to him - whose big hand "wasn't horribly donkish, but not well played" - is going to auto-push Ax? that seems like a real reach. i need the guys left to act to be way more out of line before i'm going to start designing my pre-flop lines around them.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well no, I wouldn't fold if it was HU with the donk! But the fact that the 2p2er has called his raise makes me intently worried. If 2p2er had limped, you raised, and donk had pushed - my chips go in with the quickness. But that didn't happen here. C'mon you know I am not saying you should fold just because you've only put 50 chips into the pot. Hell I called a push at level 1 with AK to a particularly donky donk yesterday, in fact I re-pushed all in, he had KTs and MHWG.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realize that, and I wasn't even saying that a call is right here.

All I'm saying is, the fact that you put X chips into the pot should have nothing to do with your decision whatsoever.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Yeah, like schwa said. The short stack was a bit donkish, but not a crazy allin no matter what maniac. I know there are such players about. I played a guy last night in a separate game who I've played 2 tournaments with for a total of 7 hands.

What VillianB did before was just limp when he shouldn't have, overplay it a bit when he hit a piece, and make a bad river bet into a trap.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

I've played a lot of games with villianA and have watched him pretty carefully.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Looks fine. I'm not folding here, but I would be pushing. Dude's probably not calling with TT or AJ so why not make him consider folding AK... and, maaaaaaaybe, QQ (which he rarely has IMO, but probably more than you're saying). I agree he rarely has AA or KK.

Re: $109 - JJ preflop - I\'m not crazy! You\'re the one that\'s crazy!
 

Ah. I see. Sorry I thought you meant he was a total nutter and yes I've seen those type too. Well in that case then yes this is probably a call, but personally I would just re-push and not flat call as it might get the 2p2er to fold AKo. Unless you actually wanted him in the hand with that? I'm not sure I would - I'd be happy to just take the t500 and single showdown - but anyway..

spoiler
 

Just in case you are curious.

VillianA's push, to me, meant almost certainly AK. I'd think possibly JJ if I didn't have the other two. TT is possible, since he could think my flat call was a little weak and just calling a likely tilter. As I said, I don't think QQ+ is likely, but he could possibly be mixing it up with AA.

Anyway, VillianA did have AK. VillianB had AJ. I won a lot. Not that it did me any good. (mumble mumble freakin mumble bastard mumble J8 mumble KK mumble freakin punk mumble mumble)

Re: spoiler
 

I would never push TT there in his position so I think you're looking squarely at AK. I actually might even fold that to your flat call, but I still think you should just push it.. the times when VillainB won't have an A or K.. meh I don't know.

Re: spoiler
 

Well its basically obvious. Calling some random guy who raises to 500 here is a no brainer, and once the other guy is allin you have no choice, since you are clearly pot committed.