KK hand
 

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP is 28/16 350 hands and solid post flop. My image should be fine at this table.


Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>

What's the plan?

Re: KK hand
 

since ive got the club, I peel the flop and fold the turn unless I get some help

Re: KK hand
 

I like a peel. You've got about 3.5 outs and some implied odds.

Re: KK hand
 

This may sound weird, but I would check the flop. Aces aren't folding but everything you beat will fold.

Check-call flop. Check-call turn. Check-fold river. I don't think he fires 3 times without the ace.

If he checks behind on the flop then I would bet-fold the turn.

I play weird.

Re: KK hand
 

No, I like this.

Re: KK hand
 

Yeah...this strikes me as better.


We're so programmed to always continuation-bet that I think we miss some chances to see where we stand more cheaply.

It's not like he's going to go crazy and have an easy time stealing from you with one of the hands that you beat (like KQ or JJ).
Your check after capping PF could sure confused the hell out of him though (suspicious of a C/R and/or just getting weird in a HU situation)

Re: KK hand
 

peel and c/f ui i like. nice hand.

Re: KK hand
 

Solid - I hate that read [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

So do you think he'll 3bet preflop with 66+?

Post flop do you think he'll raise this without an ace?

So preflop he could have 66+, All Ace broadways and KQ/KJs. Maybe a few more? 16% is reasonable range for raising but not sure about 3betting.

Anyhow post flop i think we've got to bet the flop. Check-Call look suspicious and we're giving KQ and other hands the chance for a free card.

bet/Folding is weak if we think he's capable of bluff raising Qx.

However he may be on a flushdraw and going for freecard(Very unlikly).

If we donk the turn we're not getting raised by much except what we're behind so we can fold.

However say he has 66-JJ, If we bet this flop he can fold. If we check and call the flop and turn he may continue to bluff it.

As aces and medium pairs are probably equal interms of 3betting we probably break even with CCall/CCall/Bet.

However, VS KQ we're giving free cards away aswell as flush draws.

With betting we're protecting and folding weaker hands. We're getting least when ahead(66+) due to folds and getting raised when behind(Ax).

Does giving Qx's chance to hit two pair or flush draws free cards add up to a large loss with the C/C line?

Probably not.

So in conclusion i think i like C/C C/C Bet.


The way you played it, we must peel.

If we peel, The pot will be 13SB, 7.5BB

Say we hit a Jack or ten giving us a gutshot+2outs to kings and assume hes not on a flush draw.

7.5 + 1 bet from him after we check... We've can call it getting 8.5:1

peel and fold UI.

Re: KK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
This may sound weird, but I would check the flop. Aces aren't folding but everything you beat will fold.

Check-call flop. Check-call turn. Check-fold river. I don't think he fires 3 times without the ace.

If he checks behind on the flop then I would bet-fold the turn.

I play weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like it.
We`ve got outs.
We may induce action from worse hands.
We loose less if behind.
We are not very concerned about free cards.
I think this line is way better than betting.

Re: KK hand
 

That's a very interesting line.

I went with Alobar's line and check-folded the turn (it was 6d). My thought was that after I raise UTG he cant 3-bet light at all as all my UTG raises have been strong so far. If I raised a limper I can understand a lighter 3-bet but not here.

Post-flop I can (slow)play big hands the same bet-call flop and C-R turn. If he doesn't have the ace he wouldn't bet the turn a lot of times as I havent shown tendency to fold easily in HU big pot situations.

I also need to add that I expect him to have a good read on me as we played more than 100 hands and he is on my direct left and the rest of the table are really bad players. Of course that doesn't mean that he can't be trying a fancy play here.

Re: KK hand
 

with all this action i would be shocked if he didnt have at least ak (more likely he has top 2, set). After you cap the preflop and he raises your flop bet(which i like) you should call the one bet and hope to pick up a draw on the turn, if not then i think this is a clear fold.

The reason i like to bet this flop is that after you cap preflop and lead the flop, for him to raise this flop he has to have a strong hand. If you check what do you do if he bets? call down? fold? At least with the bet you know where you are

Re: KK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
with all this action i would be shocked if he didnt have at least ak (more likely he has top 2, set). After you cap the preflop and he raises your flop bet(which i like) you should call the one bet and hope to pick up a draw on the turn, if not then i think this is a clear fold.

The reason i like to bet this flop is that after you cap preflop and lead the flop, for him to raise this flop he has to have a strong hand. If you check what do you do if he bets? call down? fold? At least with the bet you know where you are

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think so.
Assume villain has got qq.
He might give up on the flop but he very well may want to try to gain information where he stands by raising the flop and planing to fold to a 3-bet or turn raise.

Re: KK hand
 

if he has qq he has a set and has you beat.

Re: KK hand
 

Ejay,
Betting for information is often expensive and useless.

Spydogs line has a few reasonas behind it, one is to induce bluffs.

With your bet line, You're killing bluffs from jay JJ or TT. Where as if you check(We've been shown preflop agression) these hands may take shots at you. Maybe because they think you hold TT or 99.


MATT - your example of QQ has us beat.
KQ would be a better example, If KQ raises this flop we may very well be folding the best hand here which is a concern.


<font color="red"> KAP - Whats his AF? </font>

Re: KK hand
 

ok i see your point, so if we check there he bets and we call? what about the turn.
I think i have been misplaying these situations

Re: KK hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
This may sound weird, but I would check the flop. Aces aren't folding but everything you beat will fold.

Check-call flop. Check-call turn. Check-fold river. I don't think he fires 3 times without the ace.

If he checks behind on the flop then I would bet-fold the turn.

I play weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

By checking to a guy with KQ though, are you not inducing a value bet? I mean if a 2+2 has KQ would we not encourage a value bet?

Which means you're folding the best hand.

I really think its C/C C/C B/F rather than C/F.
or peel and fold. Either one.

Re: KK hand
 

Blind: call the flop, fold turn UI. You're fishing for a club, but once in a blue moon he may be doing something goofy with KJc or have misclicked or something and you can play poker on the river. But I think I give it up right there without the BD nutflush draw.

EDIT: I really like Spydog's post and am jealous that I did not post it first.