One of *those* decisions...
 

Villain's last bet put him all in. He's been a generally conservative player with brief moments of solid TAG play (a couple steals where he followed through on the flop and turn, then caught his card on the river which he also bet).

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, Button calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

No raise PF?

I call

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

I'd typically raise preflop.

And that's a sucky river but you can't do anything but call can you?

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

I raise pf every time. A continuation bet on the flop will often take this down HU uncontested assuming BB doesn't call your raise...

Anyway, post-flop I play it the same and hope he waited until the turn to raise a J.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

i would raise pf and I would bet that river considering he can't raise you and will call with K high or a jack

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

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No raise PF?

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A8s is the cutoff for the auto-preflop raise from SB for me. Sometimes I'll raise, sometimes I'll limp. I think a 20 PFR is quite high enough for me.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

this is a raise and it isn't even close imo.
It's not being conservative to complete here, it's just being weak.

you don't want to give the BB a free look at it (and they WILL fold lots of hands).
Your A-high stands a good chance to take it down unimproved against 1 opponent. But you are not nearly so likely to win with A-high against 2 opponents.


Against a weak button limper (any button open-limp is weak IMO)I think you should be raising ANY ace.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

Preflop: Raise it if you feel comfortable in SB position.

For me i think A8s is boarderline as i dont feel im comfortable enough yet post flop with weaker aces.

Turn, If they fold the turn often (Check PT stats) then i like it. Otherwise i may check to get a free river or a weak bluff from one of them? What you reckon about the bluff induce? Marginal to say the least 3way right :P?

River - Bet/fold

If he wasn't all in i think its also a bet i just wonder if a flush will raise you?

I think often here Aces, Jacks, Kings are checking behind.

5's will bet/raise, 4's will bet/raise/call.

Weaker flushes will... This is where im torn. Will a weaker flush raise forcing us to fold the best hand?

The fact he's all in makes it is, easy say he has another 10BB. Are we bet folding?

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

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Against a weak button limper (any button open-limp is weak IMO)I think you should be raising ANY ace.

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That raises another possibility with this hand, which is that the seemingly inexcusable button open limp was an AA or KK looking for some action. We were given enough details of the read on villain that perhaps the limp was veiwed with suspicion. But if the read was that the villain does open limp with his weaker hands the A8s has got to raise preflop.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

not bet/calling sooks.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No raise PF?

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A8s is the cutoff for the auto-preflop raise from SB for me. Sometimes I'll raise, sometimes I'll limp. I think a 20 PFR is quite high enough for me.

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you mean behind exactly one limper, or just in general

against a seemingly aggressive button limper this is a mistake IMO, you really ought to at least try to isolate so your Ahi has a chance at showdown.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

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i would raise pf and I would bet that river considering he can't raise you and will call with K high or a jack

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I'm with jba, if your calling a river bet, might as well bet it.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

I'm wondering why you think you have the best hand on the turn.

The river is an easy bet, you never know what these all-in guys are going to call you with.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

I think I would've raised pre-flop. Getting 8:1 to call on the end, it's not that bad. He could easily play a jack that way.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

I disagree with the pf limp, the turn bet, and the river check.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No raise PF?

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A8s is the cutoff for the auto-preflop raise from SB for me. Sometimes I'll raise, sometimes I'll limp. I think a 20 PFR is quite high enough for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean behind exactly one limper, or just in general

against a seemingly aggressive button limper this is a mistake IMO, you really ought to at least try to isolate so your Ahi has a chance at showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean with a limper. I don't know where you get that button is seemingly aggro. The read I gave was on BB, and that was a generally conservative one.

Because some players are so bad, I find myself limping liberally from SB (45 VPIPSB). I do this in weak and/or passive games where I know that a flop donk has a reasonable chance of taking down the pot (especially if broadway cards fall) or if I know that flops get checked through regularly. Sometimes I limp some stronger hands because I've been raising often and getting too much action. I don't remember the context of this hand, but it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

sorry about the mixup on the reads. but against a generally conservative BB this is even more of a raise for me. don't give infinite odds when you are probably ahead.

"Sometimes I limp some stronger hands because I've been raising often and getting too much action"

you really confuse me sometimes. this seems backwards to me.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Sometimes I limp some stronger hands because I've been raising often and getting too much action"

you really confuse me sometimes. this seems backwards to me.

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it is. you're going to stop raising K9o and crap, not your good hands.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

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I think a 20 PFR is quite high enough for me.

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Make sure it stays the *right* 20% though...

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

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"Sometimes I limp some stronger hands because I've been raising often and getting too much action"

you really confuse me sometimes. this seems backwards to me.

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it is. you're going to stop raising K9o and crap, not your good hands.

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Perhaps I'm undervaluing suited aces out of position. I think it's important to keep villains under control in postflop play. If they're starting to play back at me, then they're starting to play more correctly. I don't want that. So I'm not going to continually beat them over the head and teach them to play better.

In the back of my mind, I've got Poker Essays II (I just purchased/read it recently). He has a chapter called "Trying to Play Great" (p.133) where his #1 error is isolating too much. He talks about it as "weak players learning to call you down", but I think in the online shorthanded post-WPT world, weak players start pushing back.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

if you're talking about isolating with A8s, K9s, QTs, i agree. imo it seems that once you hit about ATs and KJs it's just passing up too much.

Re: One of *those* decisions...
 

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if you're talking about isolating with A8s, K9s, QTs, i agree. imo it seems that once you hit about ATs and KJs it's just passing up too much.

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I agree with this assessment. I don't mind if they play back a little when I have the bigger hands because they are strong enough to take some more heat. The smaller hands you listed are strong, but they don't do nearly as well when there is bonus action.