5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

from what I recall, villian is lag like 35/15. What's your standard turn line here? Is there one? I'm not sure what's best since all of these options seem good to me:

1. c/r all in
2. check/call then open push any river
3. bet 1/2, push river
4. underbet hoping to get raised (meh)

The following is how I played the hand but I'm not crazy about it.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($770)
Hero ($1000)
UTG ($335.50)
MP ($656)
CO ($1328)
Button ($1219.11)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $45</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $35, MP folds.

Flop: ($105) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $175</font>, Button calls $125.

Turn: ($455) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $275</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $780 (All-In)</font>

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

standard

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

I tend to lead/push flop. As played, c/r all in on turn.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
from what I recall, villian is lag like 35/15. What's your standard turn line here? Is there one? I'm not sure what's best since all of these options seem good to me:

1. c/r all in
2. check/call then open push any river
3. bet 1/2, push river
4. underbet hoping to get raised (meh)

The following is how I played the hand but I'm not crazy about it.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($770)
Hero ($1000)
UTG ($335.50)
MP ($656)
CO ($1328)
Button ($1219.11)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $10, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $45</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $35, MP folds.

Flop: ($105) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $175</font>, Button calls $125.

Turn: ($455) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $275</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $780 (All-In)</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

2 check-raises and you expect a worse hand to call? I think if you lead you at least get a chance of getting played at. I don't see many people trying to put moves on flop check-raises on the turn.

I would be surprised if your hand was good right now given this action-this would be a really weak attempt to steal if villain didn't have a hand.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
2 check-raises and you expect a worse hand to call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. That's why, in retrospect, I don't like the 2nd c/r.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

this is a good way to make sure you get all your money in with the worst hand or making sure you can get him to fold the worst hand.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
standard

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't just write standard for the sake of posting, c/r ing both the flop and turn is definitely not a standard line.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

IF hero simply calls the turn what river lines do the MHNL 'perts take on

1) heart
2) heart pairing the board
3) 4o
4) A

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

good question.

By the way, he folded of course.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

Check call the turn...fold if you do not hit another heart. Someone already said it but your hand is probably not good right now especially since villain bet the turn when you checked to him.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
your hand is probably not good right now especially since villain bet the turn when you checked to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

You and FF both say this but I can think of tons of hands that I'm ahead of that a lag will choose to make turn bet. I can think of very few hands that I'm behind to.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

Disagree that the turn bet means HEK behind.

Villain probably views HEK's checkraise flop + check on the Ao turn as some hand that was trying to win on the flop and is now ready to give up (77,88 whatever).

Original raiser probably feels its okay to represent Ace on the turn and takes a much larger stab.
Villain's stats make his plausable checkraise calling hands much more colorful.

A push is still -EV tho. I think.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

A lot of posters seem pretty convinced the c/raise all in on turn accomplishes the opposite of what a bet is supposed to do--it makes worse hands fold and better hands call.

I'm not convinced, at least not completely. What are our reads here? No one on this thread has come up with a read yet. Villain raises from position with one limper and so can have range of hands. When he calls check-raise on flop, what do we have him on?

I think the key to the hand is on the turn. What does villain fire with? I think AK, possibly with K of hearts, is a possibilty. Hero's hand could have A-hearts, but could easily be 66-TT. DO we think Villain would bet turn with Kx Kh? Qx Qh? How about just AK-AJ? How about a weird hand like Qd Kh just trying to represent an A?

All that said, what's wrong with the check-shove on turn? Can't Ad Ks make a tight fold here? And can Kd Kh make a loose call? Is that just hoping?

A check-call is interesting, but what is your plan on the river? If the heart comes, you probably dont get action from Ad Ks, you defitely dont from AJ, and if it doesnt you probably have no chance of making Ad Ks fold. If it comes, you might get paid off by Kd Kh, but if it doesnt I dont think you get a call from that hand, likewise with Qx Qh, whereas both might make a loose call on river. So is there value in check-shove? Am I way off the mark with my analysis here?

Lemme know.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

The flop c/r looks like a made flush. So what kind of hand do you think Button needs to call the flop c/r? I would never have thought of checking the turn for fear the button makes a PSB. As played it clearly looks like exactly what it is: a flush draw (nut?) that missed. If you've got a nut flush draw that just hit top pair Button should be making a PSB to take away your implied odds and rep a made flush. Given stack sizes the Button should probably push. Your push is your only option as played. I'd have made a $300-$350 turn bet and pushed the river.

Re: 5/10 I (sorta) make my hand on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
PSB

[/ QUOTE ]

??