QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

First hand, no reads or stats on any player (in the hand).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 players) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="green"> Hero ?? </font>

And what's the plan for the turn?

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Without reads or stats very hard.

I think that it is a fold as the only thing that will save you is probably a full house. My idea is that your pair is beaten as well as your possible flush.

To be honest I might have called it down just to be sure but it would be a leak. The info would have helped you greatly though from then on... Choices choices.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

3-bets and leads the turn. If capped on the flop then lead any non-King, non-Ace turn and call down a raise.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

I would call and C/R any non A,K,Club turn.

I put button on the Ac and CO with Jx.

IMHO, 3betting is spewing a bit since so many turn cards are bad and no one if folding.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Limp reraising on the button is pretty strange... what a confusing move. Anyway I'm 3-betting this, calling a cap and leading the turn. If I get raised after leading the turn I call down. Against unknowns I'm not folding this hand as it stands.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

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I would call and C/R any non A,K,Club turn.

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This statement seems to make the assumption that we have the best hand on the flop. Obviously we can't be 100% certain - but I think the large percentage of the time we're still ahead on the flop.

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IMHO, 3betting is spewing a bit since so many turn cards are bad and no one if folding.

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If you're assuming that we're ahead on the flop than 3-betting is certainly not spewing. It's gaining value from the hands drawing against us. Which - by the way - will likely continue to draw on the flop and on the turn regardless of how many bets it's going to cost them.

We've got an overpair and a draw to the 3rd nut flush. Against a LP limper and an LP LRR - I think we're in pretty good shape.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

We're certainly not folding so the flop decision is between calling and 3-betting.

The biggest problem of this hand is that we have no reads and we have no idea what buttons limp-reraise could be. The CO is also a mystery. I would really like to get to showdown as cheaply as possible, so, I like just calling the flop and checking the turn to see was CO and Button do. This might be the weakest way to play the hand, but I think it's best given the circumstances.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

I think the button's limp-reraise means he is moran, I don't see this being a big hand. I'd probably call and donk the turn because:

1) I don't want to go into calldown mode just yet, as I think we have the best hand here quite often.
2) I'm getting this hand to showdown pretty much always, unless the action gets insane on the turn.
3) I don't want to check the turn and risk the free card.

3-betting the flop is also a possibility, but it could end up costing us more to get to showdown.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

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Without reads or stats very hard.

I think that it is a fold as the only thing that will save you is probably a full house. My idea is that your pair is beaten as well as your possible flush.

To be honest I might have called it down just to be sure but it would be a leak. The info would have helped you greatly though from then on... Choices choices.

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This is super weak. If the button had a real hand, he would have raised the first time around. The CO could bet raising a flush, a single [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], which might be smaller than a Q. two pair, one pair, or the naked A.

I'm 3-betting this flop, if it's capped, I'm in calldown mode unless I improve.

The thought of folding this flop is absurd.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

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I think the button's limp-reraise means he is moran, I don't see this being a big hand.

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i'm not saying that the limp-raise wasn't a really dumb play, but to just dismiss the fact that this could be a big hand is also not so smart.

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I'd probably call and donk the turn because:

1) I don't want to go into calldown mode just yet, as I think we have the best hand here quite often.
2) I'm getting this hand to showdown pretty much always, unless the action gets insane on the turn.
3) I don't want to check the turn and risk the free card.


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I would like donking the turn in the absence of our flush draw. If we bet the turn and get raised (which is quite likely based on the action of the hand) we can be pretty sure we are drawing, and maybe not even drawing to the best hand. At this point we are charging ourselves even more to draw.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

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I think the button's limp-reraise means he is moran, I don't see this being a big hand.

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i'm not saying that the limp-raise wasn't a really dumb play, but to just dismiss the fact that this could be a big hand is also not so smart.


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I just think the chances this being big hand are slim. Couple that with the fact that he just coldcalled the flop makes me continue to think this.

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I'd probably call and donk the turn because:

1) I don't want to go into calldown mode just yet, as I think we have the best hand here quite often.
2) I'm getting this hand to showdown pretty much always, unless the action gets insane on the turn.
3) I don't want to check the turn and risk the free card.


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I would like donking the turn in the absence of our flush draw. If we bet the turn and get raised (which is quite likely based on the action of the hand) we can be pretty sure we are drawing, and maybe not even drawing to the best hand. At this point we are charging ourselves even more to draw.

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CO only raised the flop, I don't think this means that we are definitely going to get raised on the turn. He could have done this with hands we beat like top pair or nut flush draw. People raise the flop with tons of hands that they will not raise on the turn, so to assume we are getting raised on the turn here is a little weak, IMO. Also, it seems you are discounting the fact that our hand is still best at this point. If we are ahead, I don't want to give a free card.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

You do make fine points...my main reason for being somewhat passive in this pot is the lack of reads.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Not too bad a hand for a Stop n Go. We're not clearly ahead, have two opps and the board sets up draws, potentially for both, as well as for me. It would be good to see the turn card, plus the sng might be confusing for the opps.

I call the flop, and if the turn is a non-club bet out. If raised once, call, if 3-bet, fold.

Just my $.02 worth...
bill

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Giving this more thought, I really don't like a 3-bet on the flop. The chances we get capped a lot by hands we are ahead or behind is one reason, along with the fact we get smoothcalled and raised on the turn often when we are behind.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

I don't think calling down from this point is too weak. Your hand is too good to just throw away right now, but further aggression will often lead to juicing the pot with the second-best hand. I also wouldn't worry about giving free cards... you may be the one who needs one if you're up against a made baby flush, set, etc...

The Unbridled Aggression Coalition will say this is seeing monsters under the bed, but without reads you really have a hard time knowing where you stand in this hand, and being OOP means you risk winning the least/losing the most.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

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First hand, no reads or stats on any player (in the hand).

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 players) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="green"> Hero ?? </font>

And what's the plan for the turn?

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It think you should call the flop. Button just cold called 2. If villain has A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he can cap for value. You will have no idea whether its a draw or flopped flush.

Assuming a call on the flop, donk the turn on a non-club. I disagree with the person suggesting a C/R on a non club turn. Giving a free card to a flush draw would be a mistake of gigantic proportion. Its a tough one if villain raises the donk on a non-club.

On a club turn, you should consider check-calling for a cheap showdown with no reads. You're likely facing a higher club but you can't be sure, and moran button is giving you some overlay. (I'm not too sure about this line tho)

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 players) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Didn't think I had enough equity for a 3bet (though close). Was thinking I would c/r a turn blank. I didn't think a free card would be taken or hurt often enough to worry about. Then this.....

Turn: (9.5BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]<font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="green"> Hero??</font>

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Let's see there is a lot to cover here. I call the flop as I don't think my equity is that great. I tried to answer the options on the turn but it depends on if it is Heads up or three way, club or an ace or a Jack. I'm usually Donking the turn though.

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

Yeah, I certainly would have Bet/called the turn, and folding to a 3-bet. As you played it . . . It looks like a fold. Sure you have 2 cleans outs and 8 dirty outs. If the dirty outs are good half of the time, you have 6 outs, and it's a break even call. I just avoid the headache without reads. .

Re: QQ.....what\'s the plan?
 

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I think the button's limp-reraise means he is moran, I don't see this being a big hand. I'd probably call and donk the turn because:

1) I don't want to go into calldown mode just yet, as I think we have the best hand here quite often.
2) I'm getting this hand to showdown pretty much always, unless the action gets insane on the turn.
3) I don't want to check the turn and risk the free card.

3-betting the flop is also a possibility, but it could end up costing us more to get to showdown.

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This is my favorite answer.