a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

i don't really have any special reads on the villian in this hand.

5/10 6-handed

effective stacks around 1600


villian (utg) raises to 30, 1 fold, co and button call, i call with pocket 5s in the sb, bb calls.

flop (150) J 7 5 rainbow

checks to the pf raiser who bets 100. folds to me i raise to 320. folds to villian who calls.

turn (790) 2

i bet 355, villian instantly min-raises, i fold.


thoughts?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

why?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

Might be a nice laydown but not one I'm making when I flop a set versus the preflop raiser. Many people overplay their overpairs and without me having notes on the guy I'm not laying this down.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

well.. i mean you could be beat i guess. however.. i really dont think he pots the flop with top or middle set. call me crazy, but i still think yer 55 is pretty solidly the best hand here with villian drawing to 2 outs, or dead. enough people play bad enough in that 5-10 NL game and will check min raise QQ+ there as well as 77 or JJ. i get it in every time. holla

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

you got the action wrong. i lead the turn he minraised

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

Just fold the flop he probably has quads.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

i have made a bunch of folds similar to this online, but w/ this particular action, i hate that fold.
way too good a chance of big pair here... gotta must push.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
but w/ this particular action

[/ QUOTE ]

to me this action reaks of a set, do you disagree?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

well, he def has something.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

i've seen AA overplaeyd by the bad guys in this spot way too often to fold here.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
you got the action wrong. i lead the turn he minraised

[/ QUOTE ]

no i got the action just fine, i got the total pot wrong because i thought he made it 30 total. doenst change the way i feel about the hand though. holla

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you got the action wrong. i lead the turn he minraised

[/ QUOTE ]

no i got the action just fine, i got the total pot wrong because i thought he made it 30 total. doenst change the way i feel about the hand though. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean you went back and read the hand again and still can't interpret it correctly?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
no i got the action just fine, i got the total pot wrong because i thought he made it 30 total. doenst change the way i feel about the hand though. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

oh, nvm, i misread and thought you said somethin' check min-raise. i guess that's what happens when you play 25 hours in 3 days...

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

I check fold to flop bet, that's scary, must be overset, LOLOLOLOLOL GIVE ME A BREAK, this is a RETARDED fold

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

Call the turn and get all in on the river.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

why call preflop if ypur gonna fold?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

terrible fold IMO, no reason to play the hand if youre gonna fold a set with no big draws out

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

This bet was very likely an attempt to "freeze" you with his overpair, as he didn't want to be put to a tough decision by someone who is overplaying top pair. Looks like it pulled double duty by getting you to fold a monster as well. I think this is more likely than a bigger set given the board on the flop and his flop action. Folding is pretty bad, IMO, without some stellar reads.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

I could easily see a good player do this with AA and check behind on the river. Of course, he might do this with JJ 77 too.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
why call preflop if ypur gonna fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

can we please stop making posts like this? it is one of the dumbest phrases that gets posted to this forum, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
why call preflop if ypur gonna fold?


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
can we please stop making posts like this? it is one of the dumbest phrases that gets posted to this forum, it makes no sense whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]
you are right in saying that the particular phrase is wrong but his intentions, IMO, were correct. if he is going to fold a flopped set to a min raise on the turn with a jack high board then i am kind of confused why he is playing a pair of fives?? what was he hoping to flop then? i respect what you post, can you enlighten me?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

i think its a perfect sense. Does he need top set to keep playing the hand? But if he flops top set then there are straight draws... so maybe top boat?

-grant

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

there are certainly situations (maybe or maybe not here, but in general) where he's going to hit a set and then fold at some point. 4 flushed boards, action from super-nits on a ultra dry board, all sorts of things.

the reason I got annoyed at the post is in NL games you don't solely base your decision to commit all your chips on your hand strength alone (obv unless you have the nuts). it's certainly an important factor but far from the only one. everyone here knows this already, why do we need someone posting saying the equivalent of "you hit your set, now you have to move in or else you should have folded pf!"

--turnipmonster

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

he needs a read on his opponent. your mistake is assuming his hand strength is the only factor at play here.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

Did the turn 2 complete the rainbow or match the J suit, or did it open a backdoor flush draw for AJs?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
I could easily see a super donk player do this with AA and check behind on the river. Of course, he might do this with JJ 77 too.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

for all of you that are saying why even play pocket 5s if i'm gonna fold with bottom set you're obviously not getting it. however, it was a bad fold because he had aces.

if i don't have any type of read on a player i assume they are a good player. i do not see how any good player would play an over pair in this manner. i've come to the conclusion that against an unknown this is a terrible fold, as everyone here has already said. i will definitely fold these types of hands in the future to weak-tight straightforward opposition.


i'd also like to add that about 30 minutes before this hand went down i lost a 550 BB pot with aces on an A K K J 4 board to quad kings. so this hand probably had some effect on my fold.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

Unless he flipped over his cards and showed you a bigger set this is a terrible fold.... Push..... KK AA QQ would all play it the same....

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
I could easily see a good player do this with AA and check behind on the river. Of course, he might do this with JJ 77 too.

[/ QUOTE ]why in gods name would a good plyr check behind on the river w/ AA?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
Unless he flipped over his cards and showed you a bigger set this is a terrible fold.... Push..... KK AA QQ would all play it the same....

[/ QUOTE ]

the quality of posts to this thread just keeps getting better and better .. lol

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

.

Lets see if we can get worse....

fyp = ?

Anyway, different stakes, but similar hand I played last night.

.25/.50 6 handed Villian has $55 and I cover.

UTG raises $2, 2 fold, Hero calls $2 on button w/77, 2 fold.

Flop - Kh 7h Js

Villian bets $1, Hero raises $4, Villian raises $6, hero calls.

Turn - 4c

Villian bets $3, Hero raises $12, Villain raises $18.

I pushed makeing him show me KK or JJ... even though it was very likely he had one of those hands. Do I need to fold here for the same reasons you did?

-TripKings

P.S. If this is a completely different and a hyjack by a donk-moron please tell me to go to the kiddie forum and ignore this post.


.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't really have any special reads on the villian in this hand.

5/10 6-handed

effective stacks around 1600


villian (utg) raises to 30, 1 fold, co and button call, i call with pocket 5s in the sb, bb calls.

flop (150) J 7 5 rainbow

checks to the pf raiser who bets 100. folds to me i raise to 320. folds to villian who calls.

turn (790) 2

i bet 355, villian instantly min-raises, i fold.


thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding me? I rarely minraise but one time I do is to see where I'm at with an overpair-if I get played back at I'm normally beat but I don't feel as committed as if I had put in a big raise on the turn.

Seriously, you don't think this guy could have AA or KK trying to be absolutely sure he needs to release?

Just saw you calling these minraises donktastic. Barring reads, I think they're a lot better than folding to any turn bet, calling a turn bet then folding the river, calling the turn and river, raising big on the turn and not folding because the pot's too big, or any other option that an overpair typically has in this spot. Do you normally just fold AA here on the turn?

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

[ QUOTE ]
.

Lets see if we can get worse....

fyp = ?

Anyway, different stakes, but similar hand I played last night.

.25/.50 6 handed Villian has $55 and I cover.

UTG raises $2, 2 fold, Hero calls $2 on button w/77, 2 fold.

Flop - Kh 7h Js

Villian bets $1, Hero raises $4, Villian raises $6, hero calls.

Turn - 4c

Villian bets $3, Hero raises $12, Villain raises $18.

I pushed makeing him show me KK or JJ... even though it was very likely he had one of those hands. Do I need to fold here for the same reasons you did?

-TripKings

P.S. If this is a completely different and a hyjack by a donk-moron please tell me to go to the kiddie forum and ignore this post.


.



[/ QUOTE ]

dude at 50 nl this could be AK, KJ, J7, blah blah, etc. etc.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

I don't play at these stakes, but I'm curious about the <1/2 pot turn bet. If I am Villain and I see somebody check-raise the flop and then lead <1/2 pot on the turn, I'd be most inclined to think one of two things:
(1) He has a monster and wants to draw me in / invite me to reraise.
(2) He has a hand like TPTK or QQ that wants to get to a showdown.

If the case is (1), the min-raise will get pushed against and I fold figuring I'm behind. If the case is (2), I expect that my opponent will either call and check the river, or fold right there.

Given this reasoning, were I Villain, I could see myself taking this line with AA-QQ, JJ, 77. i don't see how you can possibly limit Villain's range to JJ, 77.

I don't know what a <1/2 pot turn bet means at 5/10 NL, but I think that it was inviting you to get played back at (especially after the flop check-raise). This is great if it's what you want -- i.e., if you plan to call/push to his raise, but terrible otherwise. Why not bet ~500-600 on the turn? For that matter, any reason you decided against leading the flop? This seems like an ideal place for it.

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

proofrock,

good post. i think leading this flop would have made the hand much easier to play. a bigger turn bet could have also prevented me from getting played back at, and since i did make this 1/2 sized pot bet on the turn i shouldn't have even thought about folding.

an example
 

like this hand?

hand i posted a while back

Re: an example
 

[ QUOTE ]
like this hand?

hand i posted a while back

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not gonna lie. I was scared shitless you were linking to a post of me criticizing you for making this play. phew

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

is it possibly this player is tight and flat called with QQ on the flop. when the turn comes i think it might look like he wants to get the river checked and cheap. set it in there if youre going to play the pocket 5s

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

hey why play AA if youre ever going to fold your overpair/top set? you simply cant play this hand if youre ever going to fold it

standard

Re: a fold unlike any other i\'ve ever made
 

kagame,

great post