I must be doing something wrong here.
 

One more attempt before I give up limit poker.

Hand 1. Third hand of game, villain is unknown. He didn't cap preflop, and he didn't raise the flop, so can we put him on KK when he goes nuts on the turn?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero ?


Hand 2. Same villain. How do we put him on exactly a queen? He's still calling the turn, so who bets the river?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (3.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (4.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero ?


Hand 3. Villain is 19/4.6 over 322 hands. What could he have that he'd limp UTG+1 and then 3-bet this flop? Anybody raise this turn? Anybody lay down a set of queens?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero ?


Hand 4. Button is 56/2.3, SB is 43/13.3, BB is 25/9.8. At least some of them were supposed to fold to a preflop raise.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, Hero ?

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Hand 1... Easy call. Nice hand.

Hand 2... I bet against an unknown.

Hand 3... 55 or 22. Raise the turn.

Hand 4... I don't see how you can fold to the flop cap. Call and catch something.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Hand 1: Call.

Hand 2: Bet.

Hand 3: Raise the turn one more time. Doesn't seem like the type to bet/3-bet HU OOP with a flush draw. Obviously call the river.

Hand 4: Well, obviously call here. Reevaluate on turn. Fold something horrible like the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or other semi-scary cards if the action gets heavy.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Get the hell out of here cold, I was first.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

hand 1 just call down after the turn raise
hand 2 value bet, fold to raise
hand 3 um raise the turn
hand 4 call and probably end up not seeing a showdown in this hand.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Wait the first hand action is screwy. I guess UTG+1 check/raised the turn. Closer now, I don't think I mind 3-betting since he can easily have K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Hand 1: Kx [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is definitely possible. You likely did well 3-betting him, but a spade draw just got there on the river.

Hand 2: Value bet.

Hand 3: Easy call getting 9:1.

Hand 4: Button and blinds look pretty loose preflop.
The board is draw-heavy and BB could easily be pumping a flush draw. Now we are all tied to the pot. What happened on the turn?

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

hand 1 -it looks like K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], but you never know, have to call

hand 2 - uh independent a read I say bet

hand 3 - Are you limiting villians hands to AKs, AJs, 55, and 22? Dependent on who he is, I pop that turn, we still have at least a redraw

hand 4 - definetly call, this could easily be BB just bloating the pot with a flush. I think there is a 30%-40% that you are ahead here (completely made up statistic).

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

*grunch*

Hand 1 - I'm guessing something like K9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], KK would be the least likely hand I'd put him on by the way it was played.

Hand 2 - in situations like this i refer back to SSHE, Miller says "bet marginal hands for value on the river against LOOSE opponents. What kinds of hands is villian limping with? is he willing to call to the river with Ax? depending on how loose and how pssive he is, he could be calling with a GSSD, whiffed flush draw, A high, A8, A2, K8. There are many hands the fish will call with.

Hand 3 - I'm raising that turn, his flop play seems pretty aggressive for a flush draw. I wouldn't expect to see someone with a 4.6 PFR get that aggro with a flush draw OOP on the flop. He might have KQ or a smaller set. On the turn you have 10 outs against a flush and most of the time you still have the best hand as well, I'm raising that turn.

Hand 4 - probably up against 2 pair or a set, also possible he is pumping a flush draw too, this is the perfect situation to do that with 2 players caught between you. You have to call the cap bet, WAY too much money in there to fold now. This is why I hate QJo.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Hand 1 - I just call the river. I don't see him on KK, but I'd expect to see K-lower kicker roughly 60% of the time, K-high 2 pair maybe 35% of the time and a set 5% of the time.

Hand 2 - I bet the river. He's done nothing to show he has a queen, so I keep firing until he pushes back.

Hand 3 - A non-flush card hits the turn and it's a definite raise. I have a hard time putting him on the flush, though, because it's very unusual to 3-bet a flush draw. Still, with the flush hitting, I don't think it's wrong to just call down. I call the river and expect to see either an AQ or a smaller set.

Hand 4 - My spidey-sense is going wild on this hand, and it's telling me that BB just flopped himself a set.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Grunch

Hand 1: Call

Hand 2: Bet the river

Hand 3: Raise the turn

Hand 4: You've gotta call this.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Hand1: Nice one. He is donking the river here but I still just call.

Hand2: I raise. Seems like he was on some kind of draw or a middle pair. You are ahead here tons of times to justify a bet/call. DONT fold to a raise.

Hand3: I think he limped with a low/medium par, maybe AQ... You are of course ahead and I don't think you should let that flushdraw scare you. Bet away.

Hand4: Call and evaluate on turn.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

grunch
1/I'd switch to call down mode after being C/R on the turn. (converted in a strange way..)
2/BB appears to be on a draw, bet.
3/Fine, call, I'm curious what he had
4/ Fold preflop

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Hand 1 I call the river. I like the turn 3bet.

Hand 2 I bet the river, expecting to see a weak middle (middling) pair often.

Hand 3 I get one more raise in on the turn before going passive. Would he really play a flush draw that strong on the flop heads up?

Hand 4, you've got to call the flop cap. Turn the Q of hearts, river the Q of clubs. Profit.
Your man here could easily be on a flush draw, but he could also have two pair or a set, so proceed with caution.

Results
 

Well at least I see I'm not alone. I don't know which is worse, to suck at poker, or just be unlucky. In each of these I hands I had the correct read on villain, but wouldn't believe it. Maybe I should abandon the books and go back to reading opponents. Not much reading to it, actually, if the donks check, call or raise, they either have it or will draw it by the river, so fold.

Hand 1. Villain shows K:d: K:s: and wins with three of a kind, kings.

Hand 2. Villain shows A:s: Q:c: and wins with a pair of queens.

Hand 3: Villain shows A:h: 6:h: and wins with a nut flush, ace high.

Hand 4: Button shows A:h: 7:h:, SB shows 2:c: 3:c: and wins with a flush, jack high, BB mucks.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

Everyone got the first 3 hands right already, but I don't think anyone mentioned just calling the first checkraise and re-evaluating on the turn. I don't think you're losing the middle players very often on a J9xs flop.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone got the first 3 hands right already, but I don't think anyone mentioned just calling the first checkraise and re-evaluating on the turn. I don't think you're losing the middle players very often on a J9xs flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on hand4, calling the c/r and raising a good turn basically non A,K, club is the better play

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1. Villain shows K:d: K:s: and wins with three of a kind, kings.


[/ QUOTE ]

This gives me a warm fuzzy feeling (once I've gotten over the surprise from not being ahead at showdown). It's like the guy played the hand normally, but afterwards handed me back two big bets, saying, "Here, guy, I thought you should have this back."

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

-grunch-

Hand 1: Raising is hardly "going nuts". Maybe he just has a king. I definitely call this river, and probably raise. I expect to see Kx a lot here. Hopefully not two pair.

Hand 2: I bet the river for value. He could have been drawing to the flush, or have some ragged pair. If he's calling down with a crappy queen, so be it.

Hand 3: He could have hit his set. I don't see him playing A-2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] but it's possible. If he only has a flush draw, then I don't like his play heads up there. You've got the best hand on the flop. Jam it. I raise the turn too. Like I said, if he's playing the flush draw that fast, it's spewing on his part. If he 3 bets the turn I call. And if he just calls my turn raise, but bets into me on the river, I might STILL raise the river.

Hand 4: Hero calls and raises/bets a non- [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] turn.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1. Villain shows K:d: K:s: and wins with three of a kind, kings.


[/ QUOTE ]

This gives me a warm fuzzy feeling (once I've gotten over the surprise from not being ahead at showdown). It's like the guy played the hand normally, but afterwards handed me back two big bets, saying, "Here, guy, I thought you should have this back."

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that's one way to look at it. Eases the pain somewhat.

Re: I must be doing something wrong here.
 

hand 1: I would just call down when you get checkraised on the turn...you will get that extra bet on the river a lot when he follows through if he does have a worse hand, and you guarantee a showdown and save bets when he does have it - that's a fairly strong line he took. I am more inclined to put him on spades the way it was played.

hand 2: WTF bet the river, this is like an auto auto bet.

hand 3: there is no way you can ever fold this IMO. raising the turn is an option, 55 and 22 are still possibilities but then again Ahxh is out there too. I could see calling down as you did.

hand 4: you have to call the cap because of all the draws he could be pumping, but I would not have three bet. I much prefer calling and raising BB's turn bet. I like your pf play.