Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

Ok. I've played two hands previous to this. Won one w/out showdown, and won one w/out showdown. Both small pots.

No good info on villian in this hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) converter

MP2 (t2030)
MP3 (t885)
CO (t1025)
Button (t1125)
SB (t820)
BB (t1075)
UTG (t970)
UTG+1 (t1200)
Hero (t1090)
MP1 (t1680)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, MP1 calls t60, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>.

Flop: (t150) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (t150) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets t225</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t375


I wasn't done with the pain though. Next hand:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) converter

MP1 (t2030)
MP2 (t885)
MP3 (t1025)
CO (t1125)
Button (t810)
SB (t1055)
BB (t970)
UTG (t1200)
Hero (t1030)
UTG+2 (t1770)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t20, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t60</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t120</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls t100, MP3 calls t60.

Flop: (t390) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t400</font>, Hero folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: t790


Finally, a third verse:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 (t2030)
MP1 (t885)
MP2 (t905)
MP3 (t1125)
CO (t1080)
Button (t1045)
SB (t950)
BB (t1200)
Hero (t910)
UTG+1 (t1770)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, UTG+1 calls t60, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls t60, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t60, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1045 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

1) good. If hes tricky at all i also check flop, or if hes a donkey.

2) I open raise but it doesn't really matter. if i limped i play it your way.

3) insta push.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

meh I dont mind it either way, I call/fold depending on the tournament/my mood/what else I gotta do that day.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

I should mention that hand 3, was RIGHT after hand 2.

Nick

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

Hey, Chief,

I think 1 and 2 are pretty standard. I don't mind the limp with JJ and I think a fold is pretty easy.
Hand 3 I'm pooooshing!

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

I like hand 1 and hand 2, hand 3 I'm calling.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

1. c-bet it you little girl.
2. why the limp? raiiiiise that. w/ the limp, yea just toss it.
3. Call.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. c-bet it you little girl.
2. why the limp? raiiiiise that. w/ the limp, yea just toss it.
3. Call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems about right. I thik the limpers open up the villains range quite a bit in hand 3. What's the buy-in?

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

wtf? why are people liking hand 1? bet! you are heads up after being the PFR, you will take this down enough to make a 90 bet profitable, if he calls, you might hit an A/Q, or you guys might check it down and you will win w/ A high. keep it simple and bet.

hand 2, is fine, folding pf to the 2nd raise might be cool, cause when you flop an overpair it's gonna suck going broke to a QQ/KK/AA.

hand 3, i dunno, this is TT/AK/AQ alot more than its a big pair cause some people have a good but vulnerable holding like that and can't really do much else but go all in. so I flip a coin and call if it's heads or tails.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

1) Why bother raising from EP with something like AQ and not make some type of a continuation bet, particularly when the flop is as favorable as it comes without actually making a pair? You're not trying to steal the blinds. You're very likely to be called by a wide range of hands. You're going to miss the flop most of the time. You HAVE to take a shot at it. Otherwise just call and see what happens. I don't mind checking the flop if you have an intention to raise. But when he checks behind you've got to lead out on the turn. I also don't mind betting with the intention of 3-betting if raised.

2) Definitely don't like this line. If you want to see a cheap flop then fine but you need to fold when it's raised and re-raised. You're barely getting the right odds to call for a set and you still have the MP raiser who might re-raise. I would normally raise it up first.

3) Pretty close call. You wouldn't normally see AA there. Perhaps but not likely KK. QQ is possible. AK is very likely. TT/99 maybe. I think you're about even, maybe very slightly ahead of his range. Decent overlay for the blinds. I like taking these small edges early knowing I will often bust but giving me enough chips to start pushing things and building a big stack if I double up.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1) Why bother raising from EP with something like AQ and not make some type of a continuation bet, particularly when the flop is as favorable as it comes without actually making a pair?

[/ QUOTE ]
The 9-5-3 flop isn't really so favourable to AQ here, because on these stack sizes, whatever the opponent called with preflop is still going to look good enough to peel a card, usually, against a continuation bet.

I think checking the flop, with the intention of calling, is fine.

But when opponent checks behind on the flop, we should bet the turn.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

I must have looked at this 3 times and saw A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] not A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. So I would still most likely C-bet. And I'd definitely lead the turn.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

1) Bet flop and turn. Fold to raise.

2) Reraise PF to isolate. Flop: probably fold.

3) Might be a coinflip or a steal by button. I prefer pushing with JJ than calling with it. Only 3 hands are favored over you. I'm tempted to call.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. c-bet it you little girl.
2. why the limp? raiiiiise that. w/ the limp, yea just toss it.
3. Call.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah - what he said! With special emphasis on number one. You have to CBet here - everytime.

I would also add - tough three hands in a row! Those are typically the hards hands to play correctly (AQ and JJ) and you got them in a row. I hope your last all in went well, and the hands got a bit easier for you after that!

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

Lets talk about hand 1.

I'm UTG+2, and my opponent seemed on the somewhat tight side. Lets just say I was making an effort to pay attention, and I was surprised by his cc of my raise. I believe he is a thinking player, although its hard to say this early, in a tourney that has lots of juicy satelliters in it.

One of the things that has been bothering me is in this situation, I whiff the flop. I put his range for CC'ing me to a pocket pair, or AQ and up. I suppose you could include some suited connectors. So, this flop was MUCH more likely to have improved his holdings than mine.

A week ago, I would have auto-pushed out a bet of T100 or so. But, I've been analyzing my game, especially in the party 150's, and it seems like I'm losing alot of $$ to missed flops OOP where I continuation bet, and get called. So, I just bet 1/10th my stack, and to the turn we go, where I miss one of my 6 outs. Now what?

I will agree that I should have bet the turn. Once he checked behind, I think betting out is reasonable.

I think the factors that made this a GOOD candidate for no continuation bet:

1. It would essentially have to be close to 1/10th my stack.
2. I'm OOP
3. Opponent CC'd my raise, and is fairly tight.

Thoughts?

Nick

p.s. I had enough by the third JJ hand, called the allin figuring that more times than not, I was going to be shown Ax (AJ or higher) and 77 through TT, many more times than QQ through AA. He has AK. I'm happy. Then unhappy.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

[ QUOTE ]
my opponent seemed on the somewhat tight side. Lets just say I was making an effort to pay attention, and I was surprised by his cc of my raise. I believe he is a thinking player, although its hard to say this early, in a tourney that has lots of juicy satelliters in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a little more info than:

[ QUOTE ]
No good info on villian in this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I think checking is reasonable for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I also have been thinking about c-bets from OOP and whether or not they've been profitable. I haven't come to any conclusions but on a ragged flop I find that most people think I've got Ax and missed when they have a pair, so they call. Of course, this is good to know when I have an overpair or better. I think I'm going to start keeping track of c-bets and see if I can get a decent sample size that provides more info.

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

Yah. Whoops.

I started thinking more about the hand, went back and reread the HH.

And I was 3-tabling limit tables at the time. Oh, I wish I had ADD.

Nick

Re: Hands I Present Thee, Three. Help ME.
 

1) I don't mind the fold. You can find a better spot against a player who will overbet. Your hand looks like a whiffed big ace played passively which is fine but goes directly to your image.

2) I'd push PF. Even without a read the two underraises look like poor attempts to isolate. It may look like an overbet, but I can't credit either player for KK,QQ with the small raise. That leaves AA, and a wide range of hands for both villains most of which have an ace in them. Hero probably has the best hand, doesn't want to see the flop and doesn't want to play it 3 ways (with a smaller raise). ATF I'd fold after playing it for set value.

3) I'd call. Hero is behind a traditional range of TT++,AK (not getting sufficient pot odds -&gt; EV-), but I think there is a good chance that there is another overcall by either pairs less than JJ or overs which would make hero EV+++.