3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

Have been playing about half an hour fairly TAGGish. Haven't shown down a hand worse than TPTK, and have shown a set and two pair. I've heard a few people, including duck claim "I'll never fold Kings preflop online short-handed." Does this look like an obvious enough spot to laydown Kings? Also, what are everyones thoughts on my minraise when action comes back around to me? I'd put villains stats up but I didn't have GT+ up at the time so I didn't have the stats available to me.
Thanks,
-Ace


$600 NL Texas Hold'em (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: AceHiStation ( $1306.15 )
Seat 3: RavenQ ( $715.10 )
Seat 2: smv78 ( $235.70 )
Seat 4: yunonymous ( $662.10 )
Seat 6: NBoyea3 ( $181.20 )
Seat 5: just4fun455 ( $176 )
yunonymous posts small blind [$3].
just4fun455 posts big blind [$6].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to AceHiStation [ Kh Ks ]
NBoyea3 calls [$6].
AceHiStation raises [$30].
smv78 folds.
RavenQ folds.
yunonymous raises [$122].
just4fun455 folds.
NBoyea3 is all-In [$175.20]
AceHiStation raises [$246.20].
yunonymous is all-In [$537.10]



AceHiStation calls [$385.90].
or
AceHiStation folds.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I'm not folding.

I don't have a ton of hands on him, but definitely enough of a donkey that I put the money in.

40/10, overplays some hands, slowplayed one set, doesn't always have a full stack.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

It cost you 385 to win 1100, so you need to win 26 % of the time to be correct, against AA you need to win 19 % of the time to break-even.

With that much pot odds I think you have to call, and Yunonimous dont seem to be a tight player from what I've seen from him.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I call. I'll maintain that you'll see AKs/QQ/AQs here often enough that folding is incorrect.

Kirk

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I caled. Big stacks AA held up, my KK took 2nd(for $0), and the shorty flipped up QQ. Kinda rare for a 6-max game. Glad to see other people get allin here too. I feel like I've ran into aces with my kings a lot recently and considered the fold, but figured the pot was so huge I'd go on uber-tilt had my hand been good. Thanks for the responses,
-Ace

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]
but figured the pot was so huge I'd go on uber-tilt had my hand been good

[/ QUOTE ]
so in other words, you had pot odds to call, and you did. Well played.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

putting in that last raise pf was very very bad imo. you let any hands you have dominated get away too easy. if you are going to play a big pot with KK you might as well play it so that the money gets in the way you want it to vs opponents hand range.

as stands you pretty much have to call b/c the pot is laying you a lot...hopefully you suckout or see qq and hold.

also quit putting players names in posts. it's just the wrong thing to do.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]

also quit putting players names in posts. it's just the wrong thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

although you're prolly right, it's alot of fun to see a familiar opponent in a post

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]


also quit putting players names in posts. it's just the wrong thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many disagree.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Many disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raw hand histories are hard to follow, and keeping players names in the hand and then posting it in a public forum is wrong. If you want to compare notes on players do so in a private manner.

I also think you are wrong in your assumption that many people disagree.

The only time I don't mind saying an opponent's name in a thread is when the opponent's name adds something to thread's content (i.e. playing a pot with Mahatma or B Buddy).

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I don't mind saying an opponent's name in a thread is when the opponent's name adds something to thread's content (i.e. playing a pot with Mahatma or B Buddy).

[/ QUOTE ]
Who's to say when the opponent's name adds content and when it doesn't?

If even one poster knows the villian in the hand, that could add a lot to the discussion of that hand.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]
AceHiStation raises [$246.20].


[/ QUOTE ]
this is where u fvcked up.
shouldve lost 30 on this hand.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I prob fold pre-flop, figuring the third raise is for sure AA. Now obviously the third raise is short stack going all-in, but it happens against a TAG like you. Even if its not perfect play, its not awful to muck.

If not, I call, and with no A on flop play for the rest of my money.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I like the mini-raise, and a 4-bet pre-flop usually is AA. Unless villian is really donkish I'd fold. Not sure why he doesn't call in position and commit you on the flop. That's the only thing that makes me scratch my head.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

If they are like my 600NL people, I go all in.

If your table is really tight for some reason, I dunno.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

Let not forget 33, TT, A6s, 98s, and the powerful AJo.

Oh six max players, I love you.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


also quit putting players names in posts. it's just the wrong thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems the higher the limit the more it matters who Villian is and the more you are constantly playing against the same people

Many disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

hey ace,
I play it just like you did, have to call the last bet, but I do agree with you that sometimes you can fold KK pf in 6 max, just gotta be SUPER obvious.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I think the only time i folded KK preflop in a short handed game was:

Effective stack 175bb

Hero BB and doesnt get out of line image, all fold to button who open limps, sb completes, hero raises pot with KK, button fairly quickly pushes all in for 175bb...

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

Excuse the raw HH. The converter site was down and I was still in midst of a session and didn't feel like manually converting the hand.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

i see no problem w/posting the players name in the hand. its not like these tables are private, these are all publicly open tables where anyone can watch.

at higher levels where there are less players, reads become more important, and def can add content to the hand. whats so bad about posting the name of the player too? its not like anyones bashing the player or anything.

name posting goes on all the time in the high limit forum too - in fact, they even have a thread about who is a winning player, whos winning the most, whos losing the most, etc.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

I don't mind posting player names either, and it sure makes the hands more interesting, as well as makes for better feedback with more individual reads.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many disagree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raw hand histories are hard to follow, and keeping players names in the hand and then posting it in a public forum is wrong. If you want to compare notes on players do so in a private manner.

I also think you are wrong in your assumption that many people disagree.

The only time I don't mind saying an opponent's name in a thread is when the opponent's name adds something to thread's content (i.e. playing a pot with Mahatma or B Buddy).

[/ QUOTE ]

No I am correct in my statement that many disagree. In fact the majority would probably disagree with you.

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

i guess times have changed then...

Re: 3/6: Easy preflop KK laydown?
 

often in mhnl you will see something like 'villain is rednosesam' or something to the extent. this can prove productive for discussion amongst mhnl players because a lot of them have played many hands with the individual or have seen extensive pieces of their play.

however, at middle nl and low nl this is kinda counterproductive to condusive strategic thinking.

the players pools are intensely larger at lower limits of play, and while some posters will say "oh, I know that guy", other's wont.

imo at these levels, it is better to just leave the names blank and provide hero's reads on villain's, hero's image and villain's image. This way the people giving input to the hand can more precisely detail how they feel the line is or how they would play it differently, as opposed to just throwing names out there.