LA Poker Room advice
 

I'm heading to an L.A. poker room this next week with my brother and looking for advice. It's probably between the Bike, the Commerce, and the Hustler.

He plays 3-6, 4-8, possibly 6-12

I play 4-8 up through 10-20. (Prefer 6-12 or 8-16)

We are looking for soft games, don't really care about other factors. What's our play?

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

There's really no such thing as a soft 3-6 or 4-8 game in LA. They are all showdown games and suckout-o-ramas. It's not so much that you have to be lucky. It really boils down to not being UNLUCKY. More often than not, even the 25-50 games play like 2-4.

For the experience of what a poker rooms should be...Commerce is a must visit.

For a very comfortable relaxed environment with a decent class of ppl...Hustler is great (pretty much my home base).

For typical wild LA poker with some less than savory patrons feel free to hit the Bike, Normandie, CP, Hollywood Park or Hawaiian Gardens.

Don't get me wrong...I play at all of them on occassion, but I only bring my SO to Commerce or Hustler.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

i can only speak about commmerce...

the 4/8 is a nutso game, a ton of fun, try and find the table where they are capping every hand, there always is at least one...

there are usually 1 or 2 6/12 games going and they are quite soft, usually mixed among the 100NL games, but they don't change lineup often so you might be on the wait list for a long time...

my advice, go to the terrace and play 9/18, best value and the games are great....

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's really no such thing as a soft 3-6 or 4-8 game in LA. They are all showdown games and suckout-o-ramas. It's not so much that you have to be lucky. It really boils down to not being UNLUCKY. More often than not, even the 25-50 games play like 2-4.

For the experience of what a poker rooms should be...Commerce is a must visit.

For a very comfortable relaxed environment with a decent class of ppl...Hustler is great (pretty much my home base).

For typical wild LA poker with some less than savory patrons feel free to hit the Bike, Normandie, CP, Hollywood Park or Hawaiian Gardens.

Don't get me wrong...I play at all of them on occassion, but I only bring my SO to Commerce or Hustler.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's odd, I was under the impression "soft" meant a table filled with fish, much like you'd find at tables where it's a "suck-out-o-rama" or a "showdown game". You don't consider 8 people going to the river with you a "soft" table?

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

If you're looking for soft 6-12 games, I think nothing beats Hollywood Park. I've played 6-12 at Hustler and Commerce about 3 times each, and every time it's been significantly tighter than your average Hollywood Park 6-12.

For the 3-6 or 4-8, I think it's more of a tossup among Hollywood Park, Commerce, and Hustler, but Commerce has more selection, and you should probably check it out at some point. I can't comment on the Bike at those limits.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

Any of those 3 casinos will give you soft games as high as you wanna play. Just go to the closest one, or the one you wanna visit most. I was just on L@TB and that 8/16 was so soft I was amazed, unfortunately I couldn't get any cards for the hour I was on the show.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

Yeah, the 9-18 at Commerce is great. You should go there, have your buddy play the 4-8, and you can play the 9-18.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
There's really no such thing as a soft 3-6 or 4-8 game in LA. They are all showdown games and suckout-o-ramas. It's not so much that you have to be lucky. It really boils down to not being UNLUCKY. More often than not, even the 25-50 games play like 2-4.

For the experience of what a poker rooms should be...Commerce is a must visit.

For a very comfortable relaxed environment with a decent class of ppl...Hustler is great (pretty much my home base).

For typical wild LA poker with some less than savory patrons feel free to hit the Bike, Normandie, CP, Hollywood Park or Hawaiian Gardens.

Don't get me wrong...I play at all of them on occassion, but I only bring my SO to Commerce or Hustler.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on his first comments, don't listen to any advice this poster gives.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

not really...i consider a soft table to be one with (8) calling stations and me.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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not really...i consider a soft table to be one with (8) calling stations and me.

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Uh, that's the entirety of Commerce.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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Based on his first comments, don't listen to any advice this poster gives.

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yeah...don't listen to what I have to say...I've only been playing in these rooms since Hustler was the El Dorado and you couldn't find a NL game if your life depended on it in southern cal.

back when they were spreading draw and 5-stud.

i talk completely out of my ass.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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Based on his first comments, don't listen to any advice this poster gives.

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yeah...don't listen to what I have to say...I've only been playing in these rooms since Hustler was the El Dorado and you couldn't find a NL game if your life depended on it in southern cal.

back when they were spreading draw and 5-stud.

i talk completely out of my ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I stand by my original statement.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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I stand by my original statement.

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In your opinion...can the 3/6 and 4/8 games be beaten on a consistent basis without having to put in 8+ hours?

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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I stand by my original statement.

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In your opinion...can the 3/6 and 4/8 games be beaten on a consistent basis without having to put in 8+ hours?

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Your question makes no sense.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I stand by my original statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

In your opinion...can the 3/6 and 4/8 games be beaten on a consistent basis without having to put in 8+ hours?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your question makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh....ok

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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uh....ok

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Really dude, it doesn't make sense.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]

Based on his first comments, don't listen to any advice this poster gives.

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yeah...don't listen to what I have to say...I've only been playing in these rooms since Hustler was the El Dorado and you couldn't find a NL game if your life depended on it in southern cal.

back when they were spreading draw and 5-stud.

i talk completely out of my ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are if you think suckouts and bad beats aren't what people are looking for. Everytime I get runner-runnered means that I just got some sucker to put all their money in with me as a huge favorite. So um... if you don't like games with calling stations or just loose passives. Send them my way, my home game needs some refreshing until Biloxi is back up.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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I stand by my original statement.

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In your opinion...can the 3/6 and 4/8 games be beaten on a consistent basis without having to put in 8+ hours?

[/ QUOTE ]

Games are beatable or not... Not time dependent. Example: Not matter how long you spend throwing quarters on the little saucer coated in pam at the fair it still isn't "beatable" whether for 1 min, 1 hour or the rest of your life.

Those games are probably beatable if you can play fairly well back at home. Heck it seems like you can play 4/8 there if you can play .50/1 online even.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

4/8 at Commerce is a crazy donk fest. I've only had a chance to play the 9/18 during the week... It did not live up to my expectations.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

I don't mind if there are (1) or (2) loose-aggressive players at my table. If you played the 3/6 and 4/8 in socal you would know that is not the case and that the majority of the players are either loose-aggressive or loose-passive.

I don't know about you but I prefer to be HU or in 3-way pots as opposed to family pots where any two cards are played. How can you ever put ppl on a hand???

And why do several of you keep insisting that maniacs are good to play against? I can see having (1) at your table being a good thing but 6-8??? And that's what you get at socal 3/6, 4/8 and also often at the 6/12, 9/18 Limit Hold-em games.

Give me (8) tight-passive players at my table anyday.

And to address the other topic...I don't believe the 3/6 and 4/8 in socal can be beaten in the long run. By beaten I mean eeking out a decent $/hr win ratio over an extended period of time.

I'm pretty sure there's a reason pros (ppl that make their living at poker grinding it out...not big game pros) don't play 3/6 - 9/18 Limit Holdem. Do you think they would actually avoid a game that can be beat on a consistent basis?

The 10/20, 15/30 and 20/40 are much easier to grind out a steady income (edited to say...if you have aptitude for the game).

Here endith the lesson...

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

WOW thanks for the lesson. In your ninteenth post why dont you explain the meaning of life so that I know what it is for idiots.

Greg

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

being new to the board make me less credible?

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

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being new to the board make me less credible?

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Yes because you have apparently read none of the extensive discussion of why these games are so beatable, how "small stakes holdem" established how to very easily beat these games, and you don't undersand why a pro might prefer making 1.5BB an hour at 20-40 to making 4BB an hour at 3-6.

The only issue with making money at low limits is the rake, and even then you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house.

Oh, and here is how to read your opponents at low limits. 95% of the time they call they have a crappy hand and are hoping you are bluffing or they'll hit miracle runner runner by the river. The other 5% of the time they are slow playing their "monster", top pair decent kicker or bottom two pair.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

I don't know why people keep arguing with you. It was apparent from your first post in this thread that you're a nit that doesn't fully understand poker.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]


Oh, and here is how to read your opponents at low limits. 95% of the time they call they have a crappy hand and are hoping you are bluffing or they'll hit miracle runner runner by the river. The other 5% of the time they are slow playing their "monster", top pair decent kicker or bottom two pair.

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NH sir.

Basically, low limits in Los Angeles are beat by creating volume. You are not looking for soft games. You are looking for games with 7-8 loose players(ie most weekend low limit games at Commerce), who will call with hands that have zero or next to zero chance to win. In that manner, you may only have the 2nd or 3rd best hand to start, but even those will show a profit because so many others are playing so loose. And in the situations where you do have the best hand, you can raise freely, there by creating huge volume. You do not need to put opponents on hands as often since the pots will be so huge that you *have* to call with a very wide range of holdings.

The reasons pros eschew these games is that #1.) The amount you win....even if you make 1.5-2 BB per hour, is not that much, #2.) The variance is huge.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

People play 15/30+ for a living because they can make more money. $30/hr vs. $18/hr. Which would you prefer?

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
you don't undersand why a pro might prefer making 1.5BB an hour at 20-40 to making 4BB an hour at 3-6.

The only issue with making money at low limits is the rake, and even then you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for being the first person to raise an intelligent argument on this thread.

It's amazing that so many refrain from discussion on a "discussion board."

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's really no such thing as a soft 3-6 or 4-8 game in LA. They are all showdown games and suckout-o-ramas. It's not so much that you have to be lucky. It really boils down to not being UNLUCKY. More often than not, even the 25-50 games play like 2-4.

For the experience of what a poker rooms should be...Commerce is a must visit.

For a very comfortable relaxed environment with a decent class of ppl...Hustler is great (pretty much my home base).

For typical wild LA poker with some less than savory patrons feel free to hit the Bike, Normandie, CP, Hollywood Park or Hawaiian Gardens.

Don't get me wrong...I play at all of them on occassion, but I only bring my SO to Commerce or Hustler.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on his first comments, don't listen to any advice this poster gives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
4/8 at Commerce is a crazy donk fest

[/ QUOTE ]

I always table change to the cap every street game.

Most profitable by far...

don't forget to buy in for 100BB

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

"you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house"

If you buy in for $200 and cash out $400, you have made $200. (2+2 DOES =4) It doesn't matter if you paid $5 in rake or $400 during that session. (see 2+2=4)

If i played 2000 hours of 20/40 this year and made $40,000, did I really make $68,000 but payed $28,000 in rake? No!

Let's keep it simple, let's keep it real, let's keep it real simple:

2+2=4

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm heading to an L.A. poker room this next week with my brother and looking for advice. It's probably between the Bike, the Commerce, and the Hustler.

He plays 3-6, 4-8, possibly 6-12

I play 4-8 up through 10-20. (Prefer 6-12 or 8-16)

We are looking for soft games, don't really care about other factors. What's our play?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want the luxury of being able to look over many tables to find the softest game, go to Commerce or the Bike. They're the biggest places and have the most games going. That'll give you a chance to pick out a soft table and try to get seated at it, even if that means asking for a table change. Good luck!!

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
"you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house"

If you buy in for $200 and cash out $400, you have made $200. (2+2 DOES =4) It doesn't matter if you paid $5 in rake or $400 during that session. (see 2+2=4)

If i played 2000 hours of 20/40 this year and made $40,000, did I really make $68,000 but payed $28,000 in rake? No!

Let's keep it simple, let's keep it real, let's keep it real simple:

2+2=4

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic.

Assuming this isn't a troll, the rake is worse at lower limits because it's a bigger % of the BB or pot size. Obviously, whatever you take away from the table at the end of the session has already had the rake deducted.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm heading to an L.A. poker room this next week with my brother and looking for advice. It's probably between the Bike, the Commerce, and the Hustler.

He plays 3-6, 4-8, possibly 6-12

I play 4-8 up through 10-20. (Prefer 6-12 or 8-16)

We are looking for soft games, don't really care about other factors. What's our play?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want the luxury of being able to look over many tables to find the softest game, go to Commerce or the Bike. They're the biggest places and have the most games going. That'll give you a chance to pick out a soft table and try to get seated at it, even if that means asking for a table change. Good luck!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Commerce is about 10X bigger than the bike, would recommend that game for low limit action, bike has lots of props.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you don't undersand why a pro might prefer making 1.5BB an hour at 20-40 to making 4BB an hour at 3-6.

The only issue with making money at low limits is the rake, and even then you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for being the first person to raise an intelligent argument on this thread.

It's amazing that so many refrain from discussion on a "discussion board."

[/ QUOTE ]

DeeMo,

Welcome to the boards. I think if you spend some time here you'll find that some of the smartest minds in poker are associated w/ the 2+2 publishing company. Most of the flaming you've received so far seems to be due to a common understanding that loose games are ALWAYS beatable for more bets per hour than those with tighter, more skilled players. It's just mathmatics. Ed Miller's book, Small Stakes Hold'em is considered by most to be the definitive work on these games. You should seriously pick up a copy and visit the microlimits forum for great discussion of the game.

You will find that the members here practice a tough love method - no offense should be taken. We are all here to learn and posting incorrect opinions is the best way to do that.

Best of luck,

Salty

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

I almost find this as funny as a LONG time player at Bike who could not be convinced that a pocket pair had a 1 in 8 chance of hitting trips on the flop. I broke it down for him....2/48, 2/47, 2/46. His quote was: "Well that is just fuzzy math because you can't know that those cards aren't in another player's hand"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house"

If you buy in for $200 and cash out $400, you have made $200. (2+2 DOES =4) It doesn't matter if you paid $5 in rake or $400 during that session. (see 2+2=4)

If i played 2000 hours of 20/40 this year and made $40,000, did I really make $68,000 but payed $28,000 in rake? No!

Let's keep it simple, let's keep it real, let's keep it real simple:

2+2=4

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic.

Assuming this isn't a troll, the rake is worse at lower limits because it's a bigger % of the BB or pot size. Obviously, whatever you take away from the table at the end of the session has already had the rake deducted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure there's a reason pros (ppl that make their living at poker grinding it out...not big game pros) don't play 3/6 - 9/18 Limit Holdem. Do you think they would actually avoid a game that can be beat on a consistent basis?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Just...wow.

Re: LA Poker Room advice
 

2/50, 2/49, 2/48

I gotta quite posting when I'm tired.

[ QUOTE ]
I almost find this as funny as a LONG time player at Bike who could not be convinced that a pocket pair had a 1 in 8 chance of hitting trips on the flop. I broke it down for him....2/48, 2/47, 2/46. His quote was: "Well that is just fuzzy math because you can't know that those cards aren't in another player's hand"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"you can make money, you're just paying too much of it to the house"

If you buy in for $200 and cash out $400, you have made $200. (2+2 DOES =4) It doesn't matter if you paid $5 in rake or $400 during that session. (see 2+2=4)

If i played 2000 hours of 20/40 this year and made $40,000, did I really make $68,000 but payed $28,000 in rake? No!

Let's keep it simple, let's keep it real, let's keep it real simple:

2+2=4

[/ QUOTE ]

Classic.

Assuming this isn't a troll, the rake is worse at lower limits because it's a bigger % of the BB or pot size. Obviously, whatever you take away from the table at the end of the session has already had the rake deducted.

[/ QUOTE ]

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