Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

Here is a hand that I think I could have made more money on, and I'd like some help figuring out how, and analyzing my play Here are my questions:

1) Am I correct to have just called the button raise with 77? I tend to fold with low pairs (5 or less) to a raise, call with middle, and raise with high, is this correct play?

2) I was slightly worried about pocket tens, and possibly but not likely pocket AA held by indian. Is this a realistic worry? My read on him is only 17 hands, VP$IP= 35%, PF raise = 3%, bb/100 = -81

Here is the hand (it's set so you can make it a text file and play it with PT. I can't get the hand converter by bison to convert positions or pot size correctly, can anyone help me with this? or is it the program?):

***** Hand History for Game 3194080835 *****
$2/$4 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, December 13, 12:08:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 65437 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: jmel1971 ( $43.75 )
Seat 5: MonkeiC ( $86.87 )
Seat 6: SantaAce ( $71 )
Seat 7: MonkSanuski ( $74.50 )
Seat 8: mrblanco222 ( $182.50 )
Seat 9: ammam ( $113 )
Seat 10: swordncard ( $144 )
Seat 2: CptnNemo ( $109.50 )
Seat 4: indianJ ( $40.28 )
Seat 1: davey10 ( $98 )
MonkSanuski posts small blind [$1].
mrblanco222 posts big blind [$2].
ammam posts big blind + dead [$3].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to CptnNemo [ 7c 7d ]
ammam checks.
davey10 folds.
CptnNemo calls [$2].
indianJ calls [$2].
SantaAce raises [$4].
MonkSanuski calls [$3].
mrblanco222 folds.
ammam folds.
CptnNemo calls [$2].
indianJ calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Ad, Tc ]
MonkSanuski bets [$2].
CptnNemo raises [$4].
swordncard has left the table.
indianJ raises [$6].
SantaAce folds.
MonkSanuski folds.
CptnNemo raises [$4].
indianJ calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5s ]
CptnNemo bets [$4].
indianJ raises [$8].
CptnNemo calls [$4].
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
CptnNemo checks.
indianJ bets [$4].
CptnNemo calls [$4].
indianJ shows [ Ah, Ts ] two pairs, aces and tens.
CptnNemo shows [ 7c, 7d ] three of a kind, sevens.
CptnNemo wins $60 from the main pot with three of a kind, sevens.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

I think you played it fine. Calling down after the turn raise is fine since Villian is essentially unknown. You could've thought about bet/calling the river as an alternate to checking.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

Could you explain your reasoning here? I expect AA or TT so seldom that (and a pair of aces/aces up so much) that I do not slow down here.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

[ QUOTE ]

Could you explain your reasoning here? I expect AA or TT so seldom that (and a pair of aces/aces up so much) that I do not slow down here.
[\quote]

I agree with this. Villian did not raise preflop. He is EXTREMELY unlikely to have AA or TT. I raise and reraise that turn and river expecting to win a large majority of the time here. I may slow down if one of the overcards pairs and villian is still pumping the board, but otherwise I'm continuing to throw bets at this pot.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

[ QUOTE ]

Could you explain your reasoning here? I expect AA or TT so seldom that (and a pair of aces/aces up so much) that I do not slow down here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, my fault for screwing up the quote....

I agree with this. Villian did not raise preflop. He is EXTREMELY unlikely to have AA or TT. I raise and reraise that turn and river expecting to win a large majority of the time here. I may slow down if one of the overcards pairs and villian is still pumping the board, but otherwise I'm continuing to throw bets at this pot.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

My reasoning huh? I don't know how to say it better than I got scared when he calls my 4 bet post flop. I get caught in alot of hands like this, it seems in 2/4 where passive players will have something like 10/10 and not raise or three bet preflop, then go nuts on the flop. I don't have a good read on him. Looking back the MOST likely hand is A10. There really is no straight or flush possibility. Thinking that, and seeing his agression after the flop, on the turn I should have kept rerasing, and bet/raise on the river. I was uneasy, and I want to either confirm or deny that I was right in feeling uneasy post flop.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

[ QUOTE ]
He is EXTREMELY unlikely to have AA or TT.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. The number of players at 2/4 that are likely to play big PPs slow PF are about equal to the number of players who will play top-pair/2-pair hands as fast as this guy after the flop.

Going 4 bets on the turn is fine. I don't think that slowing down against an unknown who's shown this much aggression is horrible either. I don't see either option making a significant impact.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

That's about as good a flop as you're likely to see for your hand. I'm going to war with that hand unless things radically change on the turn or river. If I lose set over set, well, that's going to suck, but I'll pay off.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

I don't like just calling with mid PPs preflop. My standard is if there are 2 people who limped ahead of me, I limp and hope to flop a set. If I am >MP+3 I raise. Otherwise I fold <99

IndianJ DOES NOT have AA. Even monkeys raise/rerasie/cap AA preflop. So that leaves TT in which there are 3 combinations. When I have to put a villian on 1 or 3 combinations to be ahead, I threebet the turn. If he caps then I consider TT.

All that being said, I threebet the turn and bet/call the river against an unknown.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

Given how rare you'll be up against a bigger set, I think its reasonable to go full speed ahead and happily cap every street. Either way, you will win a huge pot in this situation more times than you'll lose, so its difficult not to play this kind of hand well. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

IndianJ DOES NOT have AA.

I'd edit that to read "IndianJ PROBABLY DOES NOT have AA". Limping is with AA is fairly common with the 2/4 fish who think they are being tricky and clever.

That being said, I'm not anticipating AA and would almost certainly 3-bet this turn.

If he caps the turn, I'm feeling anxious about TT and check/call the river.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. Calling down after the turn raise is fine since Villian is essentially unknown. You could've thought about bet/calling the river as an alternate to checking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiosity, is there any reason to prefer this line over reraising the turn and calling down a cap? Since we lose three more bets either way, the only thing I could think of was that we may not want to bet an A or T river since those cards are very likely to kill us.

I agree that an overset is not impossible (and something we have to suspect if Villain doesn't slow down), but I think people who limp "big" hands like AA and TT also tend to limp AKs and then go nuts if they hit the flop at all.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

I find it very hard to put indian on AA. The only hands I can put him on are A 10, 10 10, or AK/AQ. With 10 10 being highly unlikely. I happily 3 bet the turn and lead the river. You are ahead to often not to get as many bets in as possible. If indian raises the river I may think about calling but would ultimately lean towards a 3 bet.

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

I have a hard time thinking that IndianJ has AA. I sometimes limp in UTG with them hoping for a raise. But if there are others, I'll raise with them. I don't want to get sucked out by 7-2 in the BB. I also think limping in with 77 is OK considering there was one dead posted blind already. After the pre-flop betting was done, he was still getting 5-1 on his money.

MM

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

-Unlikely and impossible are not the same thing
-Not everyone plays the same as you do

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

Bison's hand converter doesn't like the word "Texas." If you remove it, the converter works, like so:

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $3.
UTG (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Re: Playing Pocket 7\'s from middle position
 

Songwind: Thanks for showing me how the converter worked, I don't like Texas much either...haha.