(rock) AA (hardplace)
 

In a 6-max 1.5/3 game on Prima last night I’m trying to play a variety of styles. Usually, I’m pretty TAG (24/12), but I’ve been playing around with LAG (35/16) and even superaggressive (70/25) play. I won about 2.5 buyins with the superagg style, but when this hand came up, I’d shifted back into TAG. I’d been mostly folding for about 15 minutes.

Two limpers to me, and I raise it up to 16 with AA. All fold to the guy on my immediate right. This villain is a pretty good TAG player. I have never seen him get out of hand, but he’s not afraid to put his chips in the middle when he suspects he’s ahead. I respect his play and try to not get involved with him without good values. He has about 450, and I’ve got him covered.

Pot = $40ish

Flop – 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villian bets out $40. He started doing this when I was in superagg mode as a way of building pots that he thought he could win. I stacked him once when he did this. I know that I will not get any free cards or see a cheap showdown. I have no idea if he just flopped a flush draw (I don’t have A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]), a set, or the nut str8. It’s also possible that he’s got something like 88 or 99. All are possible. I decide that there’s no way to know what he has, and that if I continue, he’s likely to beat me with what he has, outdraw me, or semibluff me out of the pot. I hate calling here because it invites a bluff on the turn that I might not be able to call. If I raise, it would have to be much more then pot for me to get the information I need. So…

I fold.

I don't know how to feel about this hand...

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

A very good fold. AA does not want to fight it out with a flopped str8 on the board, plus a flush draw, str8 flush draw, possible set or two pair. Oh, yes, villain makes a PSB OOP. You can find a better spot to stack this guy again.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

Why dont you make it 100 or 120 and see what he does. If he calls most likely he will check and you check behind and see what he does on the river. If you turn an Ace then theres a good chance you have him beat. Even though you said you have been playing Lag I still dont see someone with a straight leading out. He may have a huge draw. I dont think it is a good fold when you have AA and dont put up at least a little bit of a fight. This hand is played very weak/tight and if you do this just because you think something you will get run over. Please explain why you think this is a good fold when you didnt even try to gather some information by raising him. He has been doing this too you I think you need to play on.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

Villain could have 88-QQ tp w/ OES, FD...and just trying to gain information. Throw a raise out there as his range is far too wide...
If he calls fold to a turn bet, but most of the time if he calls he'll check the turn to you then go from there.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

Can't fault the fold on what is an absolutely miserable flop for you, as your reverse implied odds are huge, and you've defined your hand for him.

But at least some of the time, you need to raise to his continuation bet, or he's going to do this to you all day long.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

"and you've defined your hand for him."

How has he defined his hand to him. All he did was make it 20 to go pre-flop, that can mean a lot of things. My only point for this thread is he have to raise and go from there. If her re-raises you on the flop, fold, if he leads out again on the turn fold. If he checks the turn, you check and if he leads for half pot bet then either call and remember what he is playing or fold and fight another day. BUT A FOLD WITHOUT A RAISE IS AWFUL!

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can't fault the fold on what is an absolutely miserable flop for you, as your reverse implied odds are huge, and you've defined your hand for him.

But at least some of the time, you need to raise to his continuation bet, or he's going to do this to you all day long.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP defined his hand? WTF. OP raised PF and then folded to a bet on a co-ordinated rag flop ... that doesn't define anything. Villain's range is a mile wide here 88-TT, flush draw, pair+str8 draw, 2 pair, set. OP looks like he folded missed overcards, not Aces.

Marlow: raise pot on flop, fold to 3-bet. Fold to heavy turn agression. Folding on the flop was weak.

mj

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

call

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

I just think not raising this more preflop(30-40)is a big mistake, i'm doing with this a wide range of hands with two limpers in front of me. Especially after a superagg mode session.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

[ QUOTE ]
call

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are the only one advocating for this, I think we'd all benefit from an explanation.

Gracias sir.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are the only one advocating for this, I think we'd all benefit from an explanation.

Gracias sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against most of villian's range calling is the thing he'd least like you to do. If he's semibluffing a big draw he either picks up the pot with a fold or 3bets all in with tons of FE and lots of equity when you raise. If he has a set he gets to 3bet you again. If he's bluffing, well you called and he can see whether he wants to bluff again. Obv a raise gets a fold right there, but its terrible against the rest of his hand range.
Obviously calling puts you to difficult decisions on later streets, but thats poker. Against villian's range of hands it's the most correct by the fundamental theory of poker.

-SmileyEH

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

Here's more reasoning:
I fold more because of the player than the flop texture. This player does not get out of line. Based on what I've seen, I also think that he's going to call or reraise just about any raise that I put in. There's no way that I can call another substantial turn lead with my hand. I'm positive that he's not backing down.
What really bothers me the most is this is EXACTLY the way he played when I busted him. In that case, I had QQ, and he was on a flush draw. This makes me think that he has me here. I think he wants his hand to look like a draw. But the beauty of his bet is that I have no idea if it’s a draw or a made hand. He has effectively stolen control of the hand.
Also, there’s a problem with a raise. If I’m raising for information, I’d rather not have to overbet the pot to do so. I believe that I’d need to overbet this pot to get any information at all. I reasoned that I didn’t want to put in another 160+ to “get information.” If he only calls, half his stack is in there and I’m pot committed anyway. So my thought was that a push is the only raise available to me.

But with that said, I'm not 100% convinced a raise isn't in order. If I had, I would have never posted the hand.

However, I don't think that folding is weak/tight because this is such a close call. Honestly, I’m not sure that there is any one line that makes a lot of money in the long run.

Thanks for all the feedback so far…

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

I would advocate calling here (vs. raising, I would never just fold) as well. Since he's leading, let's not kid ourselves - he's going to at least call a pot-size raise (and could very well 3-bet it here). He's either leading with a hand that beats you or a hand that can improve (or 88-QQ, let him keep betting these!) So keep the pot small and just call. Then evaluate what the turn brings, and go from there. You don't want to play a huge pot with AA on that board, so there's no reason to build it up by raising this flop. You could conceivably just call him down on blank turn/blank river if he continues to bet. Or find a fold if the draw gets completed.

Re: (rock) AA (hardplace)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
call

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you are the only one advocating for this, I think we'd all benefit from an explanation.

Gracias sir.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have position

he wants you to raise or fold, so do neither.

normally (I) would not be as strong as aces raiisng my button

you know what cards are bad for the turn

his hand is still unclear, he's not a nit

your hand is still unclear

the pot isn't big

raising cant protect your hand

you have position

I dunno, this is an auto call, I just cant fathom any other flop play.

edit: I actually can fathom another flop play, and it's not folding